UCKG – Still Demon Hunting

The Universal Church of the Kingdom of God (UCKG) has not abandoned its professed belief that children are possessed by demons, it would appear.

This is the church connected with the Victoria Climbie case. She is the little girl brutally murdered by Marie Therese Kouao, her great-aunt, and Carl Manning, Kauao’s boyfriend. Victoria had 128 injuries when she died, including cigarette burns and broken bones. Her great-aunt claimed that Victoria was possessed by evil spirits and the pastor of the UCKG church she attended, Alvaro Lima, did nothing to discourage her from this notion. Indeed, he seemed to go along with it. He was later to explain that the Bible says demonic possession happens and “We do not question the Bible”.

One would like to believe that the UCKG would be chastened by this experience and perhaps learn from it. Regretably, this does not appear to be the case. Take what happened during the Easter Sunday ritual at their Peckham centre, for example:

The pastor played a Beyonce video and started banging on about pop music and rap music being a vehicle for the Devil. This is nothing new, you might think, Black Sabbath faced these sort of accusations thirty years ago (although in their case the name did not help matters). What was new here was that the pastor had the children at the ritual convinced that they were possessed, to the extent that they started speaking in growly voices, saying that Satan could take the souls of those made angry by rap music. I can’t quite follow the logic here, perhaps someone could explain it to me. One girl told me that she was physically restrained while she was “possessed” and that when the pastor placed his hands on her to drive Satan out she immediately stopped struggling..

Assuming that all the children involved were not merely faking just to please the pastor, what was really going on here? It sounds to me like some form of hypnosis. I recall many years ago watching a stage hypnotist convince a number of people (including a friend of mine) that the water he was giving them by the tumblerful was in fact vodka. They all became appropriately drunk, staggering and slurring their words. When the hypnotist ended their trance, they immediately became sober.

From the description of the UCKG ritual, I suspect the pastor (maybe even unknowingly) put members of his congregation into some sort of hypnotic trance and when he told them they were possessed they began behaving like extras for an Omen remake.

I emailed the UCKG (without mentioning the name of my informant) to express my concerns. As yet, they have not bothered to reply.

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239 Responses to “UCKG – Still Demon Hunting”

  1. Smart Bombs Says:

    Ask them if they eat shellfish or wear clothes of mixed fibres, as they are both forbidden in the bible, and they “do not question the bible”.

    Hypocritical and manipulative.

    • Helen PHillips-Batman Says:

      these opinions are pathetic, banging on and on about little Victoria Clumbe is the only thing you can think of really, when 4,000 attempts at downloading child pornography is attempted in England everyday and 3 children die of neglect every week, outside the church dear.That is, each and every single week. You get the Muslims to question the Koran (then run, like hell!) and while you are at it, get the pagans to question their beliefs then we might have fewer paedophiles altogether, oh and when people hold buckets in the street to help animals, that appears to be ok, but we pick up the pieces for many people and provide 24 hour help 7 days a week,for fee , oh and ‘smartbomb’ i think God is more interested in how people treat each other than if we eat shellfish or wear mixed fibres. Neither are we responsible for all the filth, violence, terrorism and all the other selfish, retaliatry things out there that the world has to offer. Now, you can question your life, ask, where you go when you die, Ie.intelligence tells us that opposites exist, ie, hell and heaven, black and white, in and out, happy and sad, etc hell is dying for want of a bowl of rice, slowly isn’t it, well, uckg did’nt invent that, that is the consequence of selfishness and living without God,Jesus was a radical and inclusive, it was the prostitute that was given divine revelation, not the ‘good’ people. so you see, if the world had more of
      ‘love your neighbour as yourself’ and less of, up yours, i want it’
      The world would be safer, everyone would have enough, no one would die because others wanted more than they needed and the great spiritual hole that most people fill with booze, would be full of good stuff.
      I hope you become good friends with JC, he died so we could have a second chance. Merry Xmas, God bless Helen Phillips

      • Helen PHillips-Batman Says:

        DEMON POSSESSION
        @ ‘THIS IS REAL NOT FAKE! ‘
        http://WWW.TOKEIKEDAI. NET.MY

        These are muslims attempting to cast out demons from a muslim lady, I doubt if she will be left in peace for long as without Jesus Christ they will come back again, but these are not bonkers uckg pastors, so there you go. please see for yourself.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        Nice bit of whataboutery in your opening sentence. And apalling religious bigotry in your second – are you really saying paedophilia is due to Islam and paganism?

      • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

        I found this page by typing REM of Helen Phillips-Batman,
        explain someone, repeat REM.

  2. HJ Says:

    “she was physically restrained while she was “possessed” and that when the pastor placed his hands on her to drive Satan out she immediately stopped struggling”

    It sounds a bit like the table shakers in the “ghost” houses: who were these people restraining her; and what is their connection to this? Specifically, what is their connection to the church?

    To a small person, being “held down” by larger people could almost FEEL the same as being shaken/agitated by those people while they are telling you that it’s not them, that it’s the devil. Young kids are trusting, that’s why they are so ripe for this.

  3. jaycueaitch Says:

    The people restraining her were members of the congregation. Probably the pastor’s acolytes.

  4. Lily Says:

    Save the Cinema? From what??? From stopping screening or from the Church? I don’t know the UCKG. But it’s shameful to see UK decaying spiritually. I heard Churches in UK are being turned into Pubs and even Night Clubs. That’s painful. Then the British complain about muslims taking over… Wake up Britain and let the good side prevail! God Bless the Queen and the hearts of the faithful Christians in UK. God Bless the UCKG.

  5. jaycueaitch Says:

    Did you actually read my blogpost? Nothing about cinema in it for crying out loud! Any evidence of churches being turned into pubs and nightclubs? And no-one with more than two functioning brain-cells believes that muslims are “taking over”. And as for calling for blessings on the UCKG, are you stupid or evil?

    • Chris Says:

      Oj, jaycueaitch! I think you are stupid! The Muslims taking over and killing Brits all over the world! But still you Brits welcome them in your country and support them!!! This is stupid and evil! Dont u agree!?
      I fully agree with Lilly! Christians a sleeping and complain! UCKG is fighting for UK with satan!But you dont know that and dont understand it and I really hope you will one day!
      The other thing,if someone disagree with what you wrote on your blog, you should not ask them if they stupid or evil? This make you small.Do you understand?
      I am not a British and my English is as you see but I believe that you got my point.
      Muslims- please REMEMBER-when I speak about Islam,I am not talking about people, this is about IDEA,Ideology which was create FOR or BECAUSE of something. If you look closer you will see that they IMPOSE they believe on comunities and nations. I believe this is wrong and not Biblical.

      Once again sorry for English.God bless you.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        “The Muslims” are not a single group. Nor are they “killing Brits all over the world”. Your comment is inaccurate, racist and inflammatory.

        You claim Islam imposes its beliefs on other nations. Is that why fundementalist christians like you hate them so much? Because they’re so much like you?

        As for being “small”, how “small” is someone who cons a 14 year old girl into believing she is possessed by a demon? Personally, I don’t regard the word small as quite adequate to describe such people or their morality. Exploitative and evil are so much better.

      • Helen Phillips-BAtman Says:

        well, after all that defending this place, i hve today been threatened with being burned if i step out of line, so now you can ignore what i said, except this is a few sickos and not them all, this is ridiculous, because it has dragged down the work of good people. the answer they got was screw you, most unfortunate phraseology for a lady of God but there you Go Helen Friday 10th August. 2012.

      • marva Says:

        Chris like your coment. This sprituai war will be over soon just as in the days of Noah when the flood came n swept the all away. There are many who don’t believe the devil exist so then there will b no reason for the return of Jesus christ. In mt 24 talks about those the Lord says blessed are those servant when the Master come n find them giving meat to his people and that’s what the UCKG is doing everyday every hour every second. Some people love to receive I witness the light on there face as soon as they receive a miracle but ha the clouds over that same face when its giving time. Oh that’s not fear. I love you bishop Macedo and all the dedicated pastors assistant and members may God allways work in your ministry

    • bontheboy54 Says:

      Hi jay

      I thank you for your comment.

      Those heaping praise on the UCKG for its evangelical work must now open their eyes. I sat in the Finsbury Park branch of this church for well over 7 years. I thank God for opening my eyes; I will never step into any branch of the church’s branches again.

      The focus of the church’s preaching is demon possession and money theology. Money theology, if I may coin the phrase, is based on the fact that the more you sacrifice to the church the more God will bless you. I have seen children as young as 15 years old selling their entire belongings and handing the proceeds to the church. The church is alleged to take their sacrifices to mount Sinai for prayer; God will then reward their sacrifices with whatever they ask Him. Most of those who engage in this madness are ethnic minorities – poor Afro-Carribeans.

      My question is: Can the Jesus who is said to have given His life for us refuse to help us unless we sacrifice to Him? Stupid as I was I went out one day to Evangenlise – giving out the church’s leaflets, asking people to go to the church and engage in its ritual of sacrifice. A Muslim I was talking to had this to say: “You Christians tell us that Jesus died to give us life and to give it more abundantly. Now you are telling me that I can gain Jesus’ favour by sacrifising.” He went on to ask me which Jesus do I want him to believe in? The one who only blesses me as a result of my sacrifice, or the one who loves me so much that he died to give me life more abundantly? He asked me to use my common sense.

      Yes, he was spot on! I know people who sold all their cars, all their belongins, added the proceeds to their entire savings and gave everything to the church as sacrifice. What those people don’t realise is the fact that the founder of the church is alleged to have a private jet estimated at $45 million, he is also said to have 3 Mercedes Benz cars, one registered in his wife’s name, thanks to the sacrifice, ignorance and gullibility of the poor and, mostly desperate ethnic minorities.

      I hear people saying the church has transformed their lives. Christ said, “Call upon me in times of need and I will answr thee.” I can point out the likes of Bill Gates, Richard Brandson, Alan Sugar etc. who never went to UCKG, yet their lives are transformed to some extent.

      Can’t the black community wake up? Our teenagers abandon their education to become pastors of the UCKG. Of course the church accept them willingly. Yet the founder is said to have a degree in Theology. Are we still sleeping? I mean the black community.

      Please pass this on as far as you can. And I ask everyone to visit: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/category/uckg

      Thak you.

      • BAMMY SOMAH Says:

        MAN I PRAY FOR YOU ALL OF YOU AGAINST THE UCKG, I PRAY THAT GOD MAY OPEN YOUR EYES SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT EVERYTHINH=G THAT IS BEING DONE IS BIBLE BASED, BUT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE CHRISTIANS IN YOUR OWN WAY YOU CANNONT SE THAT THE UCKG IS DOING WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING HERE AND TRYING TO PROVE A POINT WHY DONT YOU FIRST CHANGE YOUR LIFE FIRSTTHEN COME AND TELL ME THAT SACRIFICE DOESNT WORK. UCKG HAS CHANGED MANY LIVES AND YOUR AGAINST THAT, UCKG HAS SAVED MANY SOULS AND YOUR AGAINST THAT…. CHRISTIAN?…YOU ANSWER THAT.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        You’ve not actually addressed his points though, have you? And what’s with the typing in all capitals? Is your shift key stuck or are you shouting?

      • Helen PHillips-Batman Says:

        hello dear, sorry that you felt you were giving money to the church, you know perfectly well, that when you sacrificed, and I have, that it is not between you and the church, if you thought that way, why did you waste your time doing it? I suppose you sat in the church for 7 years and nothing changed? As for your muslim friend asking which Jesus to believe in, I am sorry your faith was so miniscule that you were turned like a donkey with a bit in it’s mouth as the Bible says,’ May each man have his portion according to his faith’ and clearly you have none otherwise you would have told your friend to get on his bike. Oh, yes, I love the house the Bishop has, it is fabulous and wonderful in fact it is exquisite, but then Bishop Macedo spent 30 years working like a slave didn’t he, did you, work for over 30 years like a dog, helping people become strong inside so that they can overcome situations, and take on their oppression and win? Me thinks not. Also, when did the Archbishop of Canterbury live in a council flat, or the Pope, have you ever known the pope to live in a mobile home, Good for them, tell me Botheboy, what do you do for a living? you say you sat in a seat for 7 years, maybe that is all you did do. As for Rich people that did not sacrifice, well Richard Branson made his first million through [libellous comment removed - JQH], and who knows what others did, I think the issue is ‘do they have eternal life?’ When you become a Bishop and founding father of a church you have to have a degree in theology, it is expected when you apply for visas and all sorts of things, it’s good the rest of us don’t have to bother unless we want to the choice is ours. Women give up love life to become nuns, and children give up education to serve God, I understand, you do not get the sacrifice thing do you dear, Please read Malachi and research a little in to the life of Abraham, the ‘father of the faith’. Do try dear.

  6. MAMZO Says:

    It’s a pity people have got guts to comment about church especially people who do not know about God, phambili UCKG as for me I know you have helped a lot of people who did not give up and for the pastors don’t let these huligans come on your way keep on practicing what you started. You are a help to those who need it, not to the spectactors and people who do not have anything to do, for that matter, they will never reach the standard of UCKG. phambili UCKG.

  7. jaycueaitch Says:

    It’s a pity people have courage is it? What’s the problem? Don’t you like UCKG’s nasty little racket being exposed? FTR I know plenty of practicing Christiand who condemn UCKG.

  8. ALVARO Says:

    How come a man in the flesh understand the things of the Spirit? Flesh is flesh and Spirit is Spirit!…
    The reporter is flesh and the world is living in the flesh ( For those who are naive in the faith, flesh means our own will, not discerning the things of God).

    Sword for God, and Sword for UCKG!:…

  9. Araujo Says:

    UCKG. What would be of my life without this place. The day before I came I was so depressed that I tried to take my life away. A friend of mine stoppped me and brought me to the Church. Since that day I was able to rebuild my life, get rid of addictions, learned how to bring unit in my house and I succeed in all areas of my life! I don’t think this is a waste if time nor any sort of ignorance. This is the math: God + UCKG = life transformation. Now I say… You stop wasting your time and let them do their job to help young people get out of trouble!

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      May the Lord jesus convict you of your wrong. Jesus did not come solely for financial prosperity but for the saving of souls to our hevenly father, but as God liveth and his spirit is alive the truth shall stand. I leave the judgement of of any evil denomination in the hand of God of heaven and earth and he shall judge them in his wrath. for he says I am the Lord the god of all flesh is anything too hard for me/ he also said vengeance is mine. I therefore stand on the rock of ages, christ the rock shall judge this earth at the appoited time let him who think he satnd take heed lest he fall. do not be fooled or carried away even satan bless but you must watch and pray to God the father the Son and the Hollspirit. without these 3 there is no other way. salvation shall find you all

  10. Sssss Says:

    Just one question where is the proof? All these accusations has no foundation so if u can proof that the of pastors at the uckg actually give the the youth vodka or whatever you are suggesting they do, then only then will I take time of my precious minutes to read your rubbish otherwise leave them alone and get a life their not hurting anyone and no one is obligated to attend so pls get you facts right before writing rubbish against the house of God.

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      blinds leading the blinds.Jesus christ son of the living God shall find you out

    • Helen PHillips-Batman Says:

      who gave who Vodka, you can’t be serious, How much did you drink today then! twit!

  11. jaycueaitch Says:

    Sssss. I didn’t say the UCKG ‘pastors’ feed kids vodka. Read the post. Proof as to their moronic belief in podssession is given by the BBC report I linked to. Read it.

    The UCKG didn’t do Victoria Climbie much good, did they? As to what went on at the Peckham Easter ritual, I have two reliable witnesses.

    Araujo. Convincing kids they are possessed by the Devil is hardly getting them out of trouble is it? Ask yourself this, if my witness is truly possessed, how come Satan only manifests in UCKG premises? Perhaps the ‘pastor’ summons him! That’s certainly what the Zambian authorities believed when they banned the UCKG. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/world/africa/4485222.stm

    I am aware that this ban was eventually lifted but it shows that my concerns are hardly unique.

    ALVARO. Address the substantive if you post again, otherwise your posts will be deleted.

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      mate you have a point but if you are have not surrender your life to lord jesus please do so now in faith and find a bible living church to attend and the Lord Jesus shall order you step for he that keeth you does not sleep nor slumber The Lord Jesus is my keeper and your keeper.

      one thing I am glad you are not a fool. remain faithful to our Lord Jesus who died on the cross of calvary. salvation first . seek yee first the kingdom of heaven and all other things shall be added unto you

    • Helen PHillips-Batman Says:

      jayceuaitch and botheboy
      goodness me, wakey wakey dear, satan manifests himself all over the place, that’s why we have crime, and brutality, it’s quite simple really, is rape, murder, violence the work of love, no right, therefore it has to be the work of Satan, it is spiritual because satan is violent.
      It comes along and destroys families through loss, alcohol and everything else, use your intelligence. Horror is around us, and so are good things, how can you say that satan only manifests itself in uckg when you know many churches drive out demonds. I think you ought to come to our Friday nights and get yours driven out because it is stopping you from using your common sense and logic.Who are these two reliable witnesses concerning an Easter parade? no don’t answer, I don’t actually care, I am just pointing out to you that they are no one with no power and it means nothing. You would think driving out demons is abnormal and evil because you are possessed by them and they need somewhere to live, let’s face it they don’t want to go anywhere when they can sit in your persecuting and illogical little soul do they. Jesus cast out demons from those who were suffering and had had enough, but you obviously havn’t had enough yet.
      The Zambian authorities obviously banned the UCKG, because it’s messing up their JUJU! Hell, we can’t have that can we, not when their finances depends on it. Lets face it, if you want to know about prosperity gospel you could study theirs couldn;t you, where in their country the fetish markets are miles and miles long and full of the parts of dead human beings, babies hands and shrunken skulls and all, I don’t suppose the Zambian government could see all that investment gone to waste. If they really wanted to do their country good they would raise the lot to the ground, or do you personally like such places? may be you could have a think about where they get these huge amount of bodies from. As I have a friend who witnessed a market for herself in Nigeria one has to ask really, why the hell does Africa suffer so much? And the island of Haiti likewise, and always the innocent dragged into it and murdered for sick rituals, wake up we are millions of members all over the world and you can only find two incidences that you know nothing about first hand and you refuse to think intelligently, lazy brain!

  12. HJ Says:

    I’m amazed at the reactions you’re getting.

    It seems to confirm the disconnect that the devout usually have from reality.

    60% of the defenders of UKCG here can’t even connect facts to what you wrote, let alone mount a logical reason why they are telling children they are possessed. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

    I bet anything you like that they aren’t. It’s pathetic.

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      you are right like i said it blinds leading blinds but the God of heaven and earth shall defen his own. keep the first faith which is from the Lord Jesus

  13. Alvaro Elias Says:

    People open your eyes! These reporter doesn’t know what he is speaking about. As far I am concern, Victoria Clumbie was being victim of abused!..Its was proved by the corts( Came in the news). I can feel the smel of envy!…UCKG is the fastest growing evangelical movement worldwide!… Why you guys don’t go to our website and see the bunch of testimonies of peoples lifes who radicaly changed!..

    http://www.UCKG.ORG

    .UCKG couldn’t help?!….Come on give me a break, and use your inteligence!…In UCKG we are taught to think, not to follow religion or the prescriptions of this world!..Mate and if you don’t believe in demonic pocession it’s your problem!…There are problems whose origin is spiritual!…Read the Bible.

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      No mate you should read the bible and lean not on your own understanding for it is writen that let not any of the scripture be used for private interpretation, the only way to understand the bible is to pick it knwoing fully well that you do not know what a verse means untill the holyspirit explain it to you may you be saved by the Lord of host. Jehovah is his name, the God of heaven and earth

    • Helen PHillips-Batman Says:

      There will always be envy, nit picking, and stupidity will always come out in people with little faith of their own. The fact is that there are things you cannot explain to ignorant fleshy people. they havn’t found what we have, it’s like speaking French to a Dutch man, they will never get it, God has probably been inviting them to faith for years and this is their way of resisting Him isn’t it? So when they pass away and their 56 grams disappears down a gaping hole, they can’t say they weren’t told, they voted the way they wanted to go,
      God Help Us All.

  14. Sophia Says:

    Pastor Alvaro said in the inquest:

    “Possession is something we learn from the Bible. I generally do not question the Bible,” he said.

    Let’s see if he was right?

    Mark 9 (New King James Version)

    A Boy Is Healed

    14 And when He came to the disciples, He saw a great multitude around them, and scribes disputing with them. 15 Immediately, when they saw Him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. 16 And He asked the scribes, “What are you discussing with them?”
    17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.”
    19 He answered him and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me.” 20 Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.
    21 So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?”
    And he said, “From childhood. 22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”
    23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe,[a] all things are possible to him who believes.”
    24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
    25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.
    28 And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?”
    29 So He said to them, “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.

    Yes he was!..

    Now has someone asked about facts:

    (Reporter)…The Universal Church of the Kingdom of God (UCKG) has not abandoned its professed belief that children are possessed by demons, it would appear.

    1. I attend UCKG for more than 7 years!…I NEVER; EVER heard the pastor saying that children are possed by the devil!…That’s pure speculation, and unfundamented remarks and coments!…

    2. Obviously not all problems have a demonic cause, however some might have a spititual rote, and that’s what we believe when Jesus said:

    Mark 16:17
    “And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons;(…)

    I can feel the smell of envy!….UCKG IS THE FASTEST GROWING EVANGELICAL MOVEMENT WORLDWIDE!….

    why you guys don’t go to our website and see the bunch of testimonies of people whose life’s changed radically!…

    http://www.uckg.org

    UCKG couldn’t help?….come on give me a break!…in UCKG we are taught to think, not to follow religion or the presciptions of this world!…and mate if you don’t believe in demonic pocession it’s your problem!…..

    Ps: the UCKG doesn’t summon demons rather face them!….why other’s don’t? Perhaps the spirit of God is not there, because where the Spirit of God is there is liberty ( Deliverance).

    2 Corinthians 3:17 (New King James Version)

    17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

    Sword for God and sword by UCKG!…

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      No point given what you can’t fully defend is worth questioning and the question is do you really have christ the holy spirit in you as the of the Lord will minister to you debate in a case like this. Elijah said if I be a man of God let fire fall and fire fell, and if God of heaven remains God today and I believe he is still the same, he will teach you aright and save you if you have lost and redirect nyour steps to him.

  15. jaycueaitch Says:

    Sophia: How does quoting the Bible prove that Alvaro Lima is right not to question the Bible? Furthermore, Lima seemed to believe that little Victoria was possessed – he held a protection from Witchcraft ritual according to the site I linked to. And my witnesses contradict you. If I’ve a choice between believing two witnesses known to me and the BBC on the one hand and an anonymous internet troll on the other, it’s an easy choice.

    HJ: I’m not surprised at the disconnect. Given the repetition of certain key phrases, they’re all just parrotting the party line like good little clones. It’s also funny how they’ve got time for this but when I emailed the UCKG with my concerns two weeks ago, nobody deigned to reply.

  16. M Says:

    I’m apalled with some of your comments. Its always easier 2 blame others isn’t it? The UCKG did what it had to do. You cannot judge the UCKG. The UCKG simply preaches according to the Bible. They have helped many and i am talking from experience . As a youth i wanted 2 commit suicide. I then met sum1 who invited me 2 the UCKG and i can honestly say that they have helped me a lot and continue doing so for many others. If many of you don’t believe that there are evil spirits around working in families ( which is why there r many families that r destroyed) then that’s simply ur problem. UCKG is the house of God so start showing some respect for it.

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      please read what Jesus said in Matt 24 and what He likened his father’s house to, then come back and speak. Thanks, some people amaze in the sense that they know God, by their fruit you shall know them.

  17. jaycueaitch Says:

    When the UCKG does something to earn respect, then it will get some. They could start by answering the email I sent on 12 April.

    Some links for you:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/aug/03/religion.world

    http://www.rickross.com/groups/universal.html

    • MO Says:

      Firstly I really feel for people who base things on what other people say and don’t go themselves to a place in order to eye witness the truth for themselves and secondly maybe the uckg want to focus their efforts on saving those who are perishing rather than answering silly comments and questions that aren’t true!

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        I saw for myself the ‘demonic-possession’ scam the UCKG run. Deriding relevent questions as “silly comments” merely demonstrates your own moral and intellectual bankruptcy. I have said nothing that isn’t true, which is more than can be said of the UCKG mouthpieces that have appeared here. How can a question be ‘untrue’ anyway?

  18. Sssss Says:

    There are problems that we face in life that requires the help of GOD and many if not millions of people have received the help they were looking for from the UCKG. If your theories were right then the UCKG would have been closed down many years ago and Pr Alvaro Lima would have been prison by now. Hey! Read this (Universal Church of the Kingdom of GOD). Meaning everyone is invited to come, so I would like to invite you to come this Friday @ 7.30Pm and receive a strong prayer to help you overcome your problems.

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      No thanks, name has nothing to do with it Matt 24 please read. may you recieve help from the lord Jesus, Jay is right on with is debate he asks question therefore he should get a response but if he does not then it worth questioning why?

  19. Sophia Gago Says:

    jaycueaitch:

    You must think you are very intelligent don’t you!…but let me tell you one thing!…you must be intelligent for the things of this world, but concerning the word of God you are an ignorant!…

    Do you know what is a sect? You don’t know!…Sect is all the movement whose doctrine is not of Christ!…. That’s a sect, comes from Sectarism( Division, separation).

    You live in a sect!….your ideas, and comments don’t pertain to Christ so you are Anti-Christ!….You are the Sect!…

    By the way the links you post in your comment are complete rubbish.

    I never saw God blessing thief’s!….

    John 9:31 (New King James Version)

    31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him.

    If we are “Scum” and “Brainwashing” people so why does God Bless UCKG?

    • George Says:

      How would you know God blessed you unless you are suggesting that you know how God works and what He does in which case you are kind of blaspheming… And intelligence is not something that belongs to one world or another. She will not be punished for her intelligence on this world. And another thing, you need to pick up a dictionary and look up the word ‘sect’…

  20. HJ Says:

    LOL, oh yeah Sssss, that’s definitely the answer.

    How about some answers about the moral implications of telling juveniles that they have evil spirits inside them?

    What morals should be considered in such a situation?

    M’s description of “ebil spirits working inside families” sounds like what BG criticises when he says “pill solves complex social problem” – but in this case it’s – “invented malign force explains complex family dynamic”.

    In that case, I’d put it that UCKG aren’t helping anyone, or giving them the tools to help themselves, just making them see every problem through the prism of the church. Unfortunately, this would make the church almost inseperable from their lives, because they don’t have the ability to cope without it.

    As far as schemes go, it’s pretty effective by the look of what’s here. Shame that it’s so morally bankrupt, they could actually be helping these people instead of zombiefying them.

  21. jaycueaitch Says:

    Sophia Gago: Any evidence that the links are rubbish? Seem quite well evidenced to me.

    As for God not blessing thieves, if we are to believe the Gospels, Christ told one of the thieves crucified with him that he would join him in Paradise.

    Did I say UCKG are “scum”? If the cap fits, wear it.

    I think that convincing children that they are possessed by demons qualifies as brain-washing. I reckon that Benedict XVI and the Archbishop of Canterbury would be with me on this.

    Why don’t you ask your leaders to answer the email I sent them on 12 April?

  22. Alvaro Elias Says:

    You said:problem through the prism of the church. Unfortunately, this would make the church almost inseperable from their lives, because they don’t have the ability to cope without it.

    Reply: That’s exacly where you are wrong!.. In UCKG we are taught to see things in the prism of God!…Not of this world, or how YOU THINK Is better!..Your opinion is rubbish!..I don’t care about it!…you are allways saying about your two witness right?!..My friend!…The true withness is Jesus!..His WORDS, and SAYINGS are important, and they will prevail, either you like it not not!..If you don’t like it’s YOUR problem!..Not you or anybody else can change the word of God!…Swallow this one bellow!…

    JESUS SAID: “And as you go, preach, saying,’The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick,Cleanse the lepers,raise the dead, CAST OUT DEMONS.(…)”

    Mattew 10:7-8

    If casting out demons and demon posession, doesn’t exist so Jesus was wrong?!…

    You said:
    As far as schemes go, it’s pretty effective by the look of what’s here. Shame that it’s so morally bankrupt, they could actually be helping these people instead of zombiefying them.

    Reply: Zombiefyied are the Churches around!..Because they don’t do what you just read!…They have to close down their churchs and sell them to pubs and so on!..

    I went to a funeral in Catholic church, and the Reverend said:

    Wow!..I never had my church so packed up!..

    Yeah!…In a funeral, full of Zombies!…

    LOL!..

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      Read matt 24 it will help you, you sound like someone who had been to yogi classes.

  23. Alvaro Elias Says:

    Hahahahahah!…..

    You Said:
    I think that convincing children that they are possessed by demons qualifies as brain-washing. I reckon that Benedict XVI and the Archbishop of Canterbury would be with me on this.

    But who is Benedict XVI and the Archbishop of Canterbury?

    Are their words more important then Jesus words?

    JESUS SAID: “And as you go, preach, saying,’The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick,Cleanse the lepers,raise the dead, CAST OUT DEMONS.(…)”

    Mattew 10:7-8

    And no one is convincing children that they are demon possessed!…

    You are very stuborn, and stiff-necked!…

  24. jaycueaitch Says:

    You are taught to see things through the prism of the UCKG’s notion of God. Naturally, the UCKG ‘pastors’ will do all necessary interpretation for you.

    As for whether anyone can change the word of God, get two or three versions of the Bible and compare them. You will see that the “word of God” is changed rather frequently. And that’s before you start comparing the Bible with the Koran. So at least some versions must be wrong. You have no proof that your version is correct.

    FYI, the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury are leaders of two of the largest congregations in the world. You say I should not believe teir word above Christ’s. What I am actually saying is that their word is preferable to that of Bishop Macedo, who tells you lot what to think.

    And I am afraid you are wrong. The ‘pastor’ at Peckham is in fact convincing children they are possessed. If I am wrong, why is the UCKG refusing to answer my email?

    BTW, you seem to be conflating my posts with HJ’s.

  25. HJ Says:

    “BTW, you seem to be conflating my posts with HJ’s.”

    What?! You want facts and coherent arguments in your comments? What a strange man you are.. ;)

  26. hairnet Says:

    whoah! This uckg lot are bonkers.

    JQH: best of luck with your kid and perhaps some of these comments could be quite persuasive.

    • Helen PHillips-Batman Says:

      bonkers yeah,
      Look at this then

      ‘This is not fake!’ at http://www.tokeikedai .net.my’

      let us see how bonkers the muslim priest is shall we?

      Link broken because I don’t trust that site – I never trust sites where I get messages in a language I cannot read. – JQH

  27. james Says:

    Jaycueaitch LOOOOOL I think posting this report was not a smart move! They seem to be beating you at ur own GAME!………. From what i gather the UCKG just seem to be following the bible and all of its promises. Thats what alot of our Church’ around lack….following the bible word for word. By the way was YOU there at the so call “ritual” or watched the video that was showed to the kids?

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      Hi you should not have spoken if you do not have a point. first of recieve christ and confess by faith that Jesus be the lord of my life and teach me aright

  28. james Says:

    Well if u didnt here is the video that was shown loool. Please take your time and watch people. Ask yourself who are the evil ones…. UCKG/Pastors or Worldly music industry?

    Watch part 1-5

    From there you will be able to see many more links people :D

    Thanks jaycueaitch

  29. Believer Says:

    The reason why you are not backing down in your argument is because if you did, it would go against everything you believe, why? Because you have been taught a certain way and you follow those certain set of rules.
    In the same fashion, the UCKG will NEVER, stop doing what they do and believin what they believe, why? Because then they would be dis-obeying a direct command from God. And then I ask you, how could they then say that they follow the Word of God? Could they even call themselves Christians…?

  30. jaycueaitch Says:

    Beating me at my own game james? What game is that? I am just describing what happened at your ritual. And if it’s an either/or choice between who is evil, World Music or UCKG, my vote is for the UCKG.

    Believer, I am not backing down from my argument because I have witnesses who support it. You say it is because I have been taught a certain way whereas you are not backing down because you have been taught a certain way by the UCKG. Like many fundementalists, you are projecting your own thinking onto me.

    Incidently, Beyonce performed at a gig in support of Nelson Mandela’s 46664 AIDS charity, to Mandela’s evident pleasure. Are you saying Mandela is satanic? And by doing so Beyonce was helping AIDS sufferers, unlike UCKG which expells people for being HIV positive.

    • Chris Says:

      Oi! jaycueaitch

      You are really dont know what is happening around you!

      The Spiritual world, the media, the new order, one goverment etc..

      Do you know or not? No! you don’t!

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        What new order? What one government? Theres a couple of hundred governments last time I looked.

    • Private Says:

      U da 1 who is satanic, pray your-self and stop being decieved by the devil.

      • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

        hello Ofentse,
        I am not quite sure what you mean dear about being crushed, you sound extremely angry, is that because one of the pastors didn’t fancy you or something?
        Anyway, yes Ofentse, there are gossips in the church, there always will be, and there are gossips on the bus and in tescos or where ever you shop, they never stop, they are everywhere. what you have to do is stop using other people’s behaviour to cop out of being saved before it’s too late, At the end of the day when you die no one can take hell for you. No one can help you when it is too late, Some people die so quickly that they can’t pray for salvation. the problems is that the Lord is not going to rebuke the UCKG because we do too much good stuff and the Lord is not going to condemn a whole church because you want Ofentse, you are not Elisha are you dear?.
        The Lord will look at all the fantastic stuff and it is written in the Bible
        “May each man have his portion according to his faith”.
        So you wont have a portion unless you get some faith, there wont be a place for you in heaven because you spent all your time on earth throwing stones and not even trying yourself.
        When we come to God we come in all shapes and sizes, spiritually speaking, We start off a mess and hopefully quickly progress forwards. That is because God is kind and accepts us in the state that you are in and others in their own state. Hopefully then we read the Bible, and take counselling and develop a humble spirit and become saved with the Holy Spirit and tithers, as it says in Malachi,read it please, it is the last book of the old testament,if you don’t tithe you are not saved, That is for all churches, and was not written by the UCKG. Then when you have fought hard all your life to keep your principals and save others and be a good ambassador for Christ, when you die, you get to rest for ever and ever, nice isn’t it, think about it because rage and criticism and unforgiveness will never get you anywhere in life. think about what happens when you die, you can’t take money, or your lovely body, or boyfriends, or big house with you, everything tangible, that you can touch comes to nothing. Better invest wisely in your spirit, anyone can criticise Ofentse, it takes no courage at all to criticize. In fact the word Satan means, accuser! Beelzebub, = Lord of the flies.
        What intelligence or strength of character does it take to be like this?
        Think for a long time Ofentse, we get one chance, then we die, and wouldn’t it be so sad if as you started to die, and it is a process, and your breathing gets more and more difficult and you feel like you are being pulled down through the floor, I saw someone die who had an attitude like yours, in front of me on the floor and it was my mother, and if anyone ever wanted to see a horror movie it is a shame they could not have seen this.
        God bless you and may your heart change.You are so very welcome dear. X

  31. james Says:

    Hi jaycueaitch, I think you have got the UCKG all wrong. The best thing would be to come for yourself and have a chat with the Pastors. The UCKG follows the bible word for word. If you read Mark 16 v 15 – 18 you will see all Jesus’ promises! ” And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out DEMONS” What more can we say!!!!!!! If you believe “Amen” if not……..

    “UCKG which expells people for being HIV positive”

    That comment isnt true my friend. What proof do u have? We can post up Testimonies, evidence in support of healing within our Church.

    Jaycueaitch I hope God can change you heart, use and bless you.

    God bless

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      Read Matt 24 it will help you too spiritual for your knwoledge this whole things

  32. Tt Says:

    Hey jaycueaitch, wht i cn say 2 u is dat, there r evil spirit n satanist wether u like it or nt. N der r many ppl especialy youth who r possessed, by evil spirit, bcoz y de devil dousn’t like us the youth,he is busy destrong de youth outside i dnt wnt 2 lie. So wht we learn at chrch is dat we hav 2 put God 1st in our lyfz as de youth. Wht i cn say 2 is dat u cnt write about smthng dat u dnt knw about n u dd nt C. I wnt 2 tel u smthng de more u say bad thngs de more UCKG grows. Jay we as de universal youth group nt only UYG other youth who accepted JESUS we knw dat we r de target of devil as long as we accepted the Lord Jesus u hav 2 knw dat. N pls b careful of wht u write. UYG MEMBER( UNIVERSAL YOUTH GROUP) GOD BE WITH U!

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      The devil can also be in disguise to harvest the youth by making fake appear real. since you are thought to think then think and read Matt 24. then ask holy spirit to interprete and lead you. no scripture should be for private interpretation

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        If scripture should not be for private interpretation, who does interpret it? And is there any point in you exhorting us to read it?

    • Private Says:

      Maybe the lady/guy is possesed. UYG Lets pray 4 this jay… He needs our pray…(AM A MEMBER 4 15 YEARS)

      • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

        Good morning jaycueaitch,
        How are you today, I trust you woke up at the crack of 9am, had a long stretch and then stood and admired the glorious view from your window, condoms being blown by the wind, and old ladies being frisked against the grafiti, well, don’t worry, the next time you have to venture outside and nearly get swept away down a wind tunnel, just think, there is somewhere, beautiful and palatial for you to visit, where people have learned how to behave much more appropriately, its called the UCKG! jaycueaitch, you are very welcome, we welcome everybody and we don’t care if you are a council tenant, everyone is able to come to God, and everybody has to work hard to get there, if you are council tenant or you own a mansion, it makes no difference to God, it’s all, hard work!
        God bless, jaycueaitch, have a safe and blessed day!
        Helen

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        I wake at 0530 on workday mornings and not much later at the weekend. My surroundings are actually quite pleasant, you’re just spouting deranged nonsense as usual.

  33. Believer Says:

    I agree…
    I hope sincerly that God changes your heart…

    And for all the rest of you, the UCKG has noting to hide, go onto the website http://www.uckg.org and explore. You will see that they are not perfect and neither do they claim to be, but they genuinely want to help people.

    Maybe even you are reading this article and you are someone that you are facing a situation that has become almost impossible, why not visit the nearest UCKG to you ( http://www.uckg.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=347&Itemid=69 ) where you will recieve free confidential advice that YOU can choose to take or not?
    Friends, its free, you can leave when you want…what have you got to lose?
    Its up to you friend…
    Imagine how happy you will be if the situation your facing goes away…
    God bless

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      its about salvation, dont invite people for healing, first know the miracle giver not the miracle most of you are forgetting the first pricinple of God’s calling

      • marva Says:

        You said its about salvation not healing, ofcourse God first above all things but you see all scripture was inspired by God and is profitably for doctrines for correction for reproof. I say that to say this U CKG did not write the bible we are just following the bible the word of God step by step by so if you have a problem take it up with Jesus a lot of times we here people say they believe in God step but which one the are many, but if is the one that send his son Jesus to redeem us from eternal condemnation, then flip a page from his book you stiff neck an uncircumsise heart why are you making ways for satan to use u against the uckg ah it was after the Lord Jesus healed many then they start to praises and worship God if Jesus was thinking like you that before he heal someone they would have to accept him and get baptise first then probably none would even recieve salvation but no it wasn’t so he heal the sick set captive free make the blind to see the lame to walk so you see where in the bible were any of these person first got save, wasn’t it after they were delliverd.?and unfortunately it wasn’t all of them that put there life in the right way many went back to the wrong way and unfortunately worst thing happen my dear i want you to read more of the gospel also the act of the apostle and if you want to know more of what the bible warrior did to overcome get the example from the old testament also annias and sapharias what happen when people move by emotion and not sincere also what happen to the rich young man when he was told by Jesus what to do to recieve salvation if you think because our lord Jesus sacrifice for our sin can make you to sit and do nothing you wrong if any man want to follow me let him deny him self pick up the cross and follow me the problem is it’s easy to say i love Jesus he is first in my life when in fact its your money no man can serve two master either he Will love one and hate the other see who you love most some people honour me with there lips but there heath is far from me if you hate uckg then first you must hate Jesus he said they Will prosecute you for my name sake think not the servant is above the master if they called the master devil then the servant Will be call aswell. Signs of the time are all around i can almost here the trumpet sound in Duet 30 i call heaven and earth witness this day here i place life and good, death and evil choose i am praying for all of you out there that are against the uckg to come to Jesus he.good night. Judgement and mercy belong to Jesus amen

  34. jaycueaitch Says:

    OK, I take back the statement that UCKG expels the HIV. They actually rip them off. See http://www.rickross.com/reference/universal/universal60.html

    BTW, I looked at that video clip. All it is is a few out of context interview quotes in which she says she is a different person on stage, ie putting on an act. Somewhat like method actors on stage – or do you believe all stage, TV and film actors are possessed by the characters they portray? As for the Eye of Horus bit, Horus is an ancient Egyptian god. Completely different mythology – nothing to do with Satan, which is a Judeo-Christian construct.

    Believer, what do you have to lose? Your money, all of it. See http://www.rickross.com/groups/universal.html

  35. Believer Says:

    what is wrong with you?

    Here i am inviting people to go to the UCKG to solve impossible situations, but i now realise that you, jaycueaitch, are an impossible case.

    If you would have done your research properly, you would have found out that Christians believe that Satan is the master of deciet, therefore Christians believe that ALL mythology is directly linked to Satan. And you will probably say, “that’s what the UCKG teaches.” OK, so ask ANY PRACTICING CHRISTIAN, who is NOT a member of the UCKG if what im saying is true.
    Also, you say that you have two witnesses, but there are THOUSANDS of witnesses who contradict what your two witnesses say, and concerning the HIV story that you have, if there is anyone out there with HIV, visit a UCKG, and see for yourself if they will turn you away, they won’t!

    And you have the other story that people will lose their money if they go. So I ask you jaycueaitch, why hasn’t the UCKG set up in rich areas? why go to places like Peckham the ghetto of ghettos????
    but don’t take my word for it…

    I invite everyone reading this to go to a UCKG HelpCentre nearest to you http://www.uckg.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=347&Itemid=69 and please, DO NOT, bring any money with you. And tell them when you get there that you have no money and you never ever intend to bring any money. See what they will do.

    Jaycueaitch, why do you hate the UCKG sooo much? what have they done to you? You may say that you are just unvieling the “truth”, but what truth? I repeat, you have a handful of witnesses and resources, whereas there are THOUSANDS who will say different.

    I’m not trying to argue with you or trying to shame you on your own website by proving you wrong and forgive if I have offended you in anyway, but I can’t stand it when people write things that just are not true.

  36. Believer Says:

    an the THOUSANDS im speaking bout, here are just a few:
    http://www.uckg.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71&Itemid=119

  37. jaycueaitch Says:

    Christians “believe” other mythologies are Satan in disguise. That’s just an assumption you make because they disagree with your own mythology. It was medieval thinking like that which lead to thoudands of people being burned at the stake in centuries gone by.

    As to why the UCKG has not set up in rich areas – rich people tend to be happier with their lot than the poor (just ask Bishop Macedo), so will not want to change their lives. You go to poor areas because those are the people who want something different so are more likely to swallow your lies.

    As to why I hate the UCKG – they are screwing with my step-daughter’s mind. I emailed your church on 12 April to express my concern but nobody has troubled themselves to reply. You can’t deal with someone who sees through your nonsense can you?

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      im not a member of UCKG and will not be but jay yes anything that is not Jesus is satan linked

  38. Believer Says:

    I see what it is…

    you are not a professional journalist or blogger or writer or whatever you want to call yourself…

    Your just an angry father.

    So why not be a mature father and go to the UCKG that your daughter attends or attended and express your views to the Pastor in charge their, instead of speaking about it on the web which isn’t really changing anything because most people on here seem to disagree with you. Whereas if you went to actually speak in person to someone and not hide behind an email, then you might actuially get something done.

    I ask you sir…do you really think writing this blog is helping your daughter? or are you more interested in proving a point? if that is your motive, to just prove a point (which is not true) and not a genuine attempt to help your daughter, then I’m sorry sir, but you are no longer a father… you’re just a dad.

    think about it…

  39. jaycueaitch Says:

    Never claimed to be a professional journalist.

    Why is sending an email “hiding”? If they responded perhaps a meeting could have been arranged to discuss the matter. Though if the preacher showed the same level of understanding as you and your fellow UCKG trolls, I wonder how much progress could have been made.

    By ignoring parental concerns it is clear that UCKG are the ones who are hiding.

  40. Believer Says:

    jaycueaitch,

    I will dis-regard the fact that you just called good friends of mine “trolls”, but lets jus say that the UCKG is in the wrong for not answering your email…are you any better for refusing to go in and speak to them?

    An you may say that you are not refusing to go in, and that you are waiting for an email back to arrange an interview.

    But you know that the UCKG is open 7 days a week from as early as 7am till 9pm, and that there is always someone there who you can speak to, so why havn’t you gone yet? I bet that there is even a UCKG near your premises…

    And have you even spoken to your daughter to try and arange an interview with the Pastor?

    Sir, it is in your hands, you say that the UCKG are the ones hiding, but unless you go in, your as good as hiding aswel.

    Again, I’m not writing this to offend you or to cause an arguement, and I’m not writing this as a Christian (which i am by the way)…

    I’m writing this because I understand where you are coming from, your just a parent concerned about his daughter and doesn’t want her getting into the wrong thing…

    So why not find out for yourself what your daughter is so interested in by going in to speak to someone?

    These replies will just keep on piling up, and it may even turn some people against the UCKG, infact I’m sure that it will, but will that change your daughter’s mind?

    You have a choice sir, you can either continue writing things and never actually doing anything, or speak to your daughter (as a friend, not a father) and ask her to take you to speak to a Pastor from the UCKG, or even better, why wait for her when you can go yourself?

    Again, I’m sorry if I’m writing anything that offends you.

  41. jaycueaitch Says:

    “Good friends” eh? So it’s not a group of random people on the internet but a joint effort? Interesting.

    Let me ask you one thing. Do you believe it is appropriate to convince a teenage girl she is possessed by demons?

  42. Believer Says:

    I werent talking about these people on the internet, I honestly do not know who they are!

    And sir, forgive me, but I tried to be polite.

    You DO NOT seek the truth.

    You are someone that you feel you have already found the truth, and that none one else can possibly be right unless they fall under your truth, and I say your truth, because that’s what it is and that is all it will ever be, your truth.

    Why do I say this?

    Because any random web browser will read the posts that have been written and seek to know the actual truth. They would visit ALL the links and make a decision for themselves. And I do not even need to say what truth they will find because I know what it is, and deep down inside, whether you admit it or not, you know that there is something wrong with what your saying but you are too PROUD to accept that maybe, just maybe, you could be wrong for once in your life!

    If i was you, I would take a leaf out of your daughters book. Or do you think that she just blindly goes to the UCKG? Do you not think that with all the access that teenagers have to the internet that she wouldn’t do some research of her own? Didn’t it cross your mind for one second that your daughter might not be as naive as you are making her out to be and that she might actually know what she is doing?

    And I know that you will have the “perfect” answer to this post, because you apparently know everything, and no body else can be right neither can anybody else’s opinion be worth looking into or even concidered for that matter.

    Wel sir, I actually thank you.

    Why?

    Because, maybe through this blog you would have “convinced” a few people or maybe even tens of people to YOUR way of thinking. But I also know that through this blog, HUNDREDS are going to be saved!

    To who? …The UCKG? …The Pastors? …Bishop Macedo?

    No my dear friend,

    HUNDREDS will be saved to the LORD JESUS CHRIST and HIS KINGDOM!!!! which for your knowledge is not the UCKG, but within each and every person that BELIEVES in Jesus.

    And what I just said you probably won’t understand and you sadly might never understand, and do you know why? Because, you think that you are right so you will not accept or even listen to anything else.

    You might say that I’m the same as you, but no friend, we have nothing in common. I USED TO think like you untill I thought one day, hey, maybe I dont know everything.

    Jesus Christ is using the UCKG to help people.

    And because of this the UCKG and ALL other churches that TRULY FOLLOW Christ, are like omletes…

    …the more you write about us, persecute us, hate us….

    …the more we GROW…

    God bless you jaycueaitch, you have just helped in the growth of God’s Kingdom, not the UCKG’s but God’s Kingdom!!!

  43. jaycueaitch Says:

    I referred to the people here who prefer to propagandise for the UCKG rather than engage with the substantive of the post as “trolls”. You said I was insulting your friends by calling them trolls. Now you say you don’t know them. Make your mind up.

    I notice you are avoiding answering the question I asked you. Do you believe it is appropriate to convince a teenage girl she is possessed by demons? It’s a simple question. Why won’t you answer it?

  44. Believer Says:

    Sir, I will answer you,

    I jus want to know something 1st:

    Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the LORD?

    And the reason why I’m asking this is so that I know if I’m going to need to explain my answer, because if you are not a believer you will not understand my answer, so I want to explain it so that you will understand.

    I’m trying to avoid your question, I just want to know if I will need to explain myself or not and as I said, I will answer your question, just answer mine 1st.

    And I am a believer, btw

  45. Believer Says:

    Forgive me, lol.
    I ment to write that I’m NOT trying to avoid your question, lol. Sorry bout that.

  46. jaycueaitch Says:

    No, I do not believe that Jesus Christ is Lord.

    You see how it’s done? When asked a question that requires a yes or no answer, you give it.

    So, an answer please. Do you believe it is appropriate to convince a teenage girl she is possessed by demons? It just requires a yes or no answer. It’s not difficult.

    • he that is in me is greater than he that is the world Says:

      Well Im sorry for you like i said I m not a member of UcKG and will not be but one thing you must have is Jesus and that is why all these guys can molest you and your daughter’s brain because they knew you do not have Jesus so you are helpless and powerless please recieve into today he is knocking at the door of your heart and find a real bible and holyspirit church to attend don’t be carried about by strange doctrine there are many that call lord lord but they only use it cover up. May you be saved in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth

  47. Believer Says:

    No, I do not believe that it is right to convince a teenage girl or anyone for that matter that they are demon possessed! That is not only morally wrong, but against the Christian faith.

    What I do believe is that a teenage girl is not a child, and therefore should be told, not convinced, but simply told whether or not she is demon possessed. If she wants to believe it, then God will set her free, if she doesn’t then that’s her problem, there is nothing God can do to help her.

    The UCKG (as I know you desire to know) believe this:
    http://www.uckg.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68&Itemid=122

    And the Bible says this: Read Mark 9:14-29. Or are you afraid that if you read the bible (which you probably believe is just a book) you will start to believe it?

    Answer your question?

  48. jaycueaitch Says:

    When I read your first paragraph, my respect for you went up a couple of notches. Then nose-dived when I read your weazle-worded qualification.

    The girl may not be completely a child but she is not an adult either, emotionally or legally. Telling someone she is possessed and then pulling some kind of stunt (my suspicion is hypnosis) to make her “manifest” is convincing her she is possessed, surely? And please do not even try to claim that she must ‘really’ be possessed. Because this demon only ever seems to appear when the UCKG preacher is around. Funny that.

    Perhaps Satan is scared of atheists. Or of normal Christians such as my wife.

    BTW, I have read the Bible. I used to be a Christian when I was my step-daughter’s age.

    • Chris Says:

      Do I understand what is written correctly?

      Did she manifest?

      If yes,do you still dont believe that is real!

      Believer says that you should go there again and see someone, I agree with him. Go go again! You wii get the answer, i am sure.

  49. Believer Says:

    Sir, what do you want me to say?

    You say that you have read the bible and that you used to be a Christian, but you write like you never was or that demon possession all new to you.

    Maybe you were reading the bible, but you never really believed it.

    Evidence of this?

    You are no longer a Christian but even go as far as calling your self an Atheist (which btw is just another religion, as the dictionary states: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.)

    And you are here trying to convince people that telling a teenager that she is demon possessed is wrong, but I tell you sir to go 1st to your wife, and ask her if demon possession is possible and if it is possible in the case of a teenager, I think that you already know what her answer will be.

    Maybe you should try and “convince” your family 1st before you attempt to “convince” anyone else? Because I would say that your daughter believes aswell.

    And you say that why does satan only manifest in the UCKG? Well sir, that is simply down to the faith of the church, as it is not the UCKG that cast out demons or causes them to manifest, but rather it is God who does ALL these things.

    So I ask you, why would God cause a demon to manifest in a church that is not ready to cast it out or even believe that it is a demon?

    And, If you will look around, you will find that the UCKG is not the only church that does what Jesus said, “…And these signs will follow those who BELIEVE: In My name they will cast out demons”

    Sir, please, if you are going to reply, reply to each paragraph that I wrote, because you say that I don’t answer questions, but sir, avoid valid points that are written, find something in that post which you can twist, and post it ignoring and disregarding the rest.

    So please sir, reply to my ENTIRE post and not just a section.

  50. Believer Says:

    *you

  51. jaycueaitch Says:

    Atheism is a religion in the same sense that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

    I have already discussed this with my wife. She has the same view on the notion that her daughter is possessed as I do.

    My daughter believes because some exploitative bastard of preacher has convinced her that this is so. And you clearly think this sort of mental abuse is acceptable.

    Outside of your damned church she is perfectly sane. So either the demon does not exist or outside of your church it is too feeble to do anything. Either way, UCKG is the problem not the solution.

  52. friend Says:

    Jaycueaitch what do you think about Mark 16 v15 -18 “In My name they will cast out demons”???????? check the bible you have at home. Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

  53. friend Says:

    ????? be careful with you words

  54. Believer Says:

    My friend, Atheism is a religion, just look at the name! (Judaism, Budism, Atheism) And if that weren’t enough, we can just use our common sense…

    Christians believe that the universe was created by a Supreme Being, we do not believe that our belief is a religion, but that it is the truth, fact, therefore is not a religion, as we believe that it is THE way of life!

    Now tell me sir, as an Athiest, do you not believe that the universe was NOT created by a Supreme Being but rather by a Big Bang? And that this belief is not a religion, but it is the truth, fact, therefore, not a religion? As you believe that it is THE way of life?

    Sound similar?

    And do me a favour and ASK your wife what she thinks about Mark 9:14-29, I’m sure that we would all just love to know what her views are on this CLEAR instruction from Jesus. (who btw, your wife, as a Christian, believes that He is THE LORD)

    And sir, you have a choice, you can keep writing this post to condemn the UCKG and be the cause of its growth as people will see this and do what you have still failed to do up to this point and actually visit the HelpCentre for themselves or you can visit the UCKG (yourself) and then make your assumptions or if you really don’t want your daughter to go, simply learn how to control her, and stop her from going.

    You have no one to blame but yourself sir.

    If the UCKG are indeed “convincing her” that she is demon possessed, and I stress the “IF”… Why don’t you as the father, tell her otherwise?

    Or don’t you have that kind of authority in your house?

    Again, please reply to ALL my comments.

  55. jaycueaitch Says:

    Believer. The blog-post is about the conduct of the UCKG. Your attempts to reframe the debate about our family relationship, my wife’s beliefs and my views on other matters are becoming tiresome.

    FTR – cosmologists views on the origins of the Universe, geologists theories on the formation and evolution of the Eart and paeleontologists theories on the evolution of life have some evidence behind them. This is why I accept them.

    Oh, and “friend”: Christ spoke his words in Aramaic. They have since been translated into Greek, from Greek to Latin and Latin to English. As any linguist (or indeed bilingual person) can tell you, translation always risks some loss of nuance. A translation of a translation of a translation can change the sense completely. Example: the Aramaic word usually translated as “virgin” actually means “unmarried woman”.

    And what precisely do you mean by telling me to be careful with my words?

  56. Believer Says:

    <trolling>

  57. HJ Says:

    I have to agree with JQH regarding Believer’s explanation of your view of the ethics of telling a young girl – not yet an adult – that she is possessed by something evil and needs help.

    When that comes from a position of authority, from a person who would be automatically trusted by a young person – not yet an adult – then there are some quite obvious questions.

    1) Is it ethical to tell a young person that they have something wrong with them? In such a formative stage of their life, shouldn’t caution be the FIRST priority?
    Counselling vulnerable people through hard news is promoted because it’s important, and it’s also effective. Diagnosis and dramatic instant treatment either trivialises it or creates unnecessary confusion.

    2) If the situation is as real as the faithful here assert, then why wouldn’t one of the first things to be done is call the minor’s parents? “We have found that your child has a serious evil possession, we are going to intervene, do we have your permission?”
    Contrast that situation with a medical equivalent and I’m sure everyone understands why that is the protocol – it’s a minor we’re talking about – not yet an adult.

    3) If this diagnosis of possession is correct, then shouldn’t treatment be a part of this minor’s whole life? Why would her school and family be left out of the treatment programme? It must be serious, but 80% of where she spends her week is ignored.
    Contrast this with a medical condition, and people are notified to watch for symptoms, trained in response methods, helping to be part of a web of prepared protectors. To have a condition like this is made out to be, and not have that safety web as part of the treatment is just irresponsible, she has an evil spirit inside her body ALL the time.

    The skeptic in me says the answer to those three questions is that it’s a process:-
    -You have a serious problem, vulnerable trusting person.
    -We can help you.
    -Only we can help you.
    -No-one else can help you.
    -You must be here, with us, for help.
    -You need this help.
    -You need us.

    And there you have it.

    Prove me wrong without quoting the bible: logic and reason could do it; the bible will not.

    Answer my 3 questions and the discussion can continue.

  58. HJ Says:

    I just noticed this from Believer

    If the UCKG are indeed “convincing her” that she is demon possessed, and I stress the “IF”… Why don’t you as the father, tell her otherwise?

    Or don’t you have that kind of authority in your house?

    That’s an interesting proposition, with different results.

    1) The demon possession is real, but he can over-ride that with his authority. Pretty awesome Dad, right there. Almost on a par with Jesus – banishing demons because of your family tree? Awesome, I’d love to see that..

    2) The demon possession is not real, but he’s not going to ground her because she thinks it might be. Also awesome Dad kudos, because he understands what’s important to his daughter, even though he disagrees with it.

    3) Demons may or may not be real, but there is no way that the “man of the house” has a right to be the final word on every decision, because normal families are a democracy. Again, more awesome Dad kudos for listening to and accommodating the other people under his roof.

    Thank the Lord there are Fathers like this, and fuck you Believer.

  59. HJ Says:

    If you want to frame Athiests as a religious sect, please watch this, it will explain why we think what we do, but don’t frame ourselves as BELIEVING in our position.

    Atheist is just the easy way to explain what we are because that’s the frame that we have to place ourselves in.

    No-one believes in the Big Bang, what an absurd thing that would be to believe in.

    “I believe in the Sun rising tomorrow” The fact is that the earth will rotate no matter what you think.

    “I believe species adapt to their conditions over time” And there’s a mountain of evidence to support this, there’s no need to believe it.

    Why would you need to believe in it?

    IT’S ALL TRUE.

    Not because someone wrote it down: because people worked it out.

  60. Alvaro Elias Says:

    Hi Hj:

    You want some answers to your questions without quoting the Bible?

    Hahahahah!…Don’t make laugh!…You must be joking or you are really blind, and stiff-necked.
    But what is this blog doing? Isn’t to question about the practice of a biblical doctrine? Deliverance, Spiritual Cleansing or casting out demons?

    1) Is it ethical to tell a young person that they have something wrong with them? In such a formative stage of their life, shouldn’t caution be the FIRST priority?
    Counselling vulnerable people through hard news is promoted because it’s important, and it’s also effective. Diagnosis and dramatic instant treatment either trivialises it or creates unnecessary confusion.

    Answer: Is not about ethics!..Its about the truth!…The first priority should always be the truth!..It’s better the truth than to cover things up!…Jesus said You will know the truth and the truth will set you free!…

    2) If the situation is as real as the faithful here assert, then why wouldn’t one of the first things to be done is call the minor’s parents? “We have found that your child has a serious evil possession, we are going to intervene, do we have your permission?”

    Answer: The Pastor is praying for spiritual deliverance, all of a sudden, a person “manifests” with an evil spirit, minor or not!…is the Pastor going to stop the prayer, make a phone call to the parents and say: “Listen your daughter is in the church, I was making a prayer and she is here with a demon manifested on her body!…Shall I cast it out or not?”

    What ridiculous point you’ve made!…..

    Contrast that situation with a medical equivalent and I’m sure everyone understands why that is the protocol – it’s a minor we’re talking about – not yet an adult.

    Answer: Although the person is a minor..so what!…does the condition of a minor affects her spirituality!…David was a minor in age, but a Giant in the Faith!…more mature then the so called “men” of war!…

    3) If this diagnosis of possession is correct, then shouldn’t treatment be a part of this minor’s whole life? Why would her school and family be left out of the treatment programme? It must be serious, but 80% of where she spends her week is ignored.
    Contrast this with a medical condition, and people are notified to watch for symptoms, trained in response methods, helping to be part of a web of prepared protectors. To have a condition like this is made out to be, and not have that safety web as part of the treatment is just irresponsible; she has an evil spirit inside her body ALL the time.

    Answer: Possession is not treated within the minor’s whole life!…The treatment is spiritual, for is a SPIRITUAL PROBLEM!…daaaaaaaa!…
    Wake up!……How call her School Help?….( The Scholl has nothing to do with it!…Don’t be dumb!)

  61. HJ Says:

    How call her School Help?….( The Scholl has nothing to do with it!…Don’t be dumb!)

    Well, you nailed me there.

    I’m not sure you comprehend the question of responsibility. You answered my first question by quoting Jesus, which I assume comes from the bible. I asked for logic.

    Who is responsible for this child? Her parents? Well, the courts, police and general society would say yes, her parents are her carers.

    What you suggest is that the need for her to be treated for this “condition” is greater than the need for the people who are responsible for her life to be informed that she’s in this situation.

    I know you’re wrong.

    I am a parent, and I can tell that you aren’t.

    Once you become a parent, you might understand why I can tell that, and also why you are wrong here. You are showing how much you have to learn, because you addressed three questions with one argument.

    An argument that is neither relevant, or effective.

    Yeah, I’ll don’t be dumb all over your face. Oooh.

  62. Alvaro Elias Says:

    To Hj:

    I think you have a problem in your mind, or perhaps you have to go back to school!….

    How can we debate all this mater without quoting the Bible!…Mate you want logic, so go to a doctor, a cientist, whatever you want!….What we discussing here is about Spirual things and the questioning of a Bible practice!..Isn’t it?….

    I didn’t suggest what you are saying!…Don’t place words in my mouth!…..What I said is cristal clear!…..To inform the parents and have a chat with them is one thing, but to treat the problem That’s what matters…Imagine for one second that your daughter has an accident, is rushed to the A&E and is in need of urgent medical attention!….The doctors have no time to ask who their parents are..First they treat, then they ask!……

    Once again, there is no substance in your comment!…..Nothing to add!…has you said I NAILED YOU!….

  63. HJ Says:

    Alvaro, the questions I asked – all of them – are about the ethics of responsibility.

    “so what!” and “its about the truth” don’t address the questions.

    “the bible” does not address the questions. You think it does, because you misunderstand them.

    I asked for logic, because it’s the only way any discussion can progress, and because this relates to ethics.

    I’m right that you don’t have children aren’t I? You keep showing it in the way you misunderstand this.

    You totally CRUCIFIED me Alvaro, I’m cowering under my keyboard.

  64. jaycueaitch Says:

    The preacher never troubled himself to inform us of the ‘possession’.

    Alvaro Elias: Your comparison with emergency medical treatment is completely bogus; doctors would only treat without reference to parents when the situation was life-threatening. A GP, for example, who diagnosed a condition requiring treatment would discuss the diagnosis and proposed treatment with a minor’s parents.

    A further point where your spurious analogy breaks down is even if a doctor has to perform emergency aid on a child, the parents are informed as soon as possible afterwards. After all, they need to know about a serious condition. If the UCKG truly believed that the ‘possession’ was a serious spiritual problem, surely he would have informed us, her parents? Also the ‘emergency spiritual aid’ did not work because he ‘had’ to do the same thing the following week – despite there being no evidence of anything wrong in the days between. Rather supports my contention that the so-called ‘possession’ was created by the preacher.

    • Chris Says:

      Hi jaycueaitch,

      this is possible and it is not neccesare because of parents. Being possesed doest mean only jump scream and fight! Normaly their(demons) are working quiet and trying to pretand that they are not there.
      marrieges,sadness, lonlyness,hate towards God,arguments at home,sicknes,cancer etc..

      I dont believe that Pasors are trying to conviced someone to be possesed! This is an options but we never can be sure.

      Check it out all the Bible versys which were pased to you by others. Just be open.okey?

      I am sorry that you had such a experience.

      There is no perfect THING on this world.NONE.

      Only GOD.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        I see. So if there is no sign of possession, that is the demon pretending not to be there and thus is proof of possession.

        So, whatever happens is proof of possession as far as you are concerned. The medieval witch-finders would have loved you.

        I think maybe you are the one who should be open. Open to the notion that you are wrong.

  65. William Says:

    I just read this blog.

    My verdict:

    Very tiring…

    And guess what? Still no real solution!

    BTW, how is the daughter doing? Where does she fit into all this? Is she on drugs? Does she have problems at school? Hanging out with the wrong crowd? Behavior problems? A rebellious kid? Staying out at night?

    The father wants the best for his kid. That’s only normal. Parenting can be very stressful indeed.

    I was adopted myself and my foster mum would dread the idea of something happening to me. That would meant failure for her!

    Interesting to note is the header on top of this blog that says:

    ———– ‘Letting Off Steam’ ———-

    ———– ‘Venting my anger…’ ——–

    – Letting of steam is fine!
    – But ‘Anger’ is not healthy!

    I did think it was good suggestion to go and visit the church minister and have a chat with him.

    I’ve met plenty of people in the past that turned out to be different than I expected.

    That’s just my opinion though.

  66. jaycueaitch Says:

    My step-daughter doesn’t have any of the problems you suggest. Not that having them would actually justify the UCKG preacher’s conduct.

    And you are only part-quoting the blog-subtitle. it says “Venting My Anger at the Woos”.

    By Woos I mean CAM artists, mystery mongers, magicmen and other exploiters of the naive. If you don’t think anger is an appropriate emotion to feel about preachers who con children into believing they are possessed by demons (or homeopaths who tell their patients that a magic sugar pill will cure AIDS for that matter) what do you think is an appropriate emotion?

  67. Baddest Says:

    Never forget Victoria Climbie.

    I don’t have the full report to hand – you can google for it. The relevant part here: a few days before she died, her (murdering) aunt took her along to the uckg, realising that the child was desperately ill. The pastor there advised that they come back on the friday which was their day for “strong prayer”. ie they would perform an exorcism. This battered dying child was sent back to be murdered – she died that Friday.

    Somehow the pastor was the only person who escaped major criticism in the enquiry, whereas all the social workers involved were blamed for being hoodwinked by the vile couple. The church was supposed to then have done training in sensitivity issues…. how could any church be practising at this time without understanding some family dynamic social-worker-y basics? Where do they get their preacher badges? Why did it take a murder for them to take this on? – tho it doesnt seem to have done much good.

    • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

      I understand your position regarding little Victoria but we don’t know what the church did and didn’t do and it would not necessarily be the wisest thing for the church to discuss details. I myself, contacted social services, the NSPCC and the local authority including the health visitors service several times a week concerning a child that lived upstairs from me, years ago,because I believed she was being sexually abused. week in, week out, on the phone, letters on and on for 4 years. eventually two police vans came in the middle of the night with ambulances, they took the little girl away, the mother failed to kill herself by hanging so the father decided to finish her off with a knife but that failed too. the little girl was never returned, 4 years of unnecessary misery in the short life of that child, because when I went everywhere no one did anything. so I am making it clear to you, what you see is not always what you get.
      The church is not in a position to talk about detail because it has to rely upon other people confiding in them, please think about what I am saying, I would have hoped that that would have been obvious , but clearly it is not. God bless.

  68. Baddest Says:

    On the Peckham service – from what you describe, I doubt that the pastor was doing classical mass hypnotism. Manipulating mass hysteria more likely – where consciousness is set aside and the crowd takes you along with it – and you are part of the crowd – feedback loop. Were there flashing lights? Add in lots of repetitive rhymic chanting, some erotic dynamics, plus lots of deperation then hope and credibilty, and away you go. I have watched people in those cheap temporary shops in Oxford Street be convinced they are buying bargains, subject to very similar techniques. Think of Beatlemania – I screamed with the best of them, and only felt very slightly silly – it was a great release.

    It could be seen as a form of hypnotism though, it’s is not like in the cartoons with twirling watches. Depends how you define it. Dentists use lines of progressively-flashing lights to calm/hypnotise patients – “watch the little bunny running past” works on children.

    Fascinating to watch but terrifying in its potential. Hitler was genius at it. Maybe I’ll go along to one of their sessions and make (surreptitious) notes. I’ll bring some garlic just in case.

  69. brownwillow Says:

    Kia Ora – I decided to send the same message ( as this one – for all) on the OTHER page – headed “FAITH IN ACTION” –

    ………jaycueaitch……you truely are a chumpion -WHOOP WHOOP…. TRUELY …. anywho’s no need to worry cause Ive already PRAYED 4u & your FAMILY!! – algood – PSSST …..GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!

    Our brain doesn’t like blank spaces, so when it encounters questions without answers it searches for something to put in the blank spaces. And because we’re driven by our own perceptions, needs and prejudices, we’re not always objective. We’re blind to our blind spots and think we ‘know,’ and the results can be disastrous. ‘I know what your real intentions are. You think I don’t know what’s going on in that head of yours? I can tell by the look on your face exactly what you’re thinking.’ Such words indicate we’ve got the other person ‘pegged,’ and feel no need to consider the situation further because we couldn’t possibly be wrong. Case closed. What about such Scriptures as, ‘He who answers a matter before he hears the facts – it is a folly and shame to him’ (Proverbs 18:13 AMP). Or, ‘… Be quick to hear, slow to speak’ (James 1:19 NAS). Or, ‘Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace; when he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive’ (Proverbs 17:28 NKJV).

    Before you ‘sound off,’ consider three things: 1) ‘For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him?’ (1Corinthians 2:11 NIV). You may suspect, guess, even feel strongly, but you don’t know their thoughts or intentions 2) ‘Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant?’ (Romans 14:4). Much of our ‘knowing,’ is merely our own judgemental spin on things. 3) If you think you know and need to deal with the issue, try saying, ‘I have some impressions (concerns, observations, etc.) I’d like to talk about.’ Then discuss your observations, feelings and impressions as your perceptions, not ‘gospel truth,’ leaving judgement to God.

    ……AMEN…..

  70. jaycueaitch Says:

    Are you spamming the same post everywhere the UCKG is mentioned? Just asking because you’ve posted it on both threads mentioning them here – and failed to address the points I make.

  71. brownwillow Says:

    Good Evening,

    ….thats such a clever word….S.P.A.M…..
    ….GOSH i feel like a criminal now…

    You know JAYCUEAITCH, you have created an OPEN FORUM – to wat is obviously yr own perception of the UCKG, to disparage the UCKG with NO SUBSTANCE wat so eva…. because of yr IGNORANCE which breeds fear……..& u dont think that thats DISRUPTIVE….????

    Ive already addressed the points that you made………because you know and I KNOW that its not about the Pastor and the UCKG church….. its about YOU….& GOD …..

    …. If you want answers to the points that you’ve made….. i wouldnt muck around – IM A NO NONSENSE PERSON… ….i’d go STRAIGHT to the BOSS…….Get on your knees and start praying to GOD…. cause i can gaurantee that there will be NO ONE that can answer your points – which u think are OUTSIDE yr realm…..but really the problem lies WITHIN YOURSELF –

    I sincerely hope you find PEACE
    Take care….

    GOD loves you !!!!

  72. jaycueaitch Says:

    My perception of the UCKG is based on what they have done to someone close to me, and their own money-grubbing publication.

    So I don’t think I’ll be praying to the UCKG’s God the Bent Bureaucrat. Too expensive!

    “The flock pray on their knees and the UCKG prey on their flock”

    • Chris Says:

      Did they forced that person to do anything or give anything?

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        With pastors constantly banging on about the need to give and the statements in “Faith In Action” that God will turn His back on you if you do not hand over money, believers come under a lot of emotional pressure to give. As you well know.

    • Chris Says:

      I never heard such a statment- quote you(God will turn His back on you if you do not hand over money) in any church and nonone who I met in my life.
      Where do you get this informations from?

      P.S. That was very interesting experience to talk to you but i think when people start offending each other is not nice end exchanging opinions becaming a empty nonsens.
      I am off,this is my last note.

      God bless you and your family.

  73. Alvaro Elias Says:

    I strongly advise everyone, who is trying to answer this guy…STOP GIVING PEARL TO SWINE!…Don’t waist your time with those who are blind and refuse to see the truth!…

  74. jaycueaitch Says:

    I see you are resorting to personal abuse now. Doubtless you cannot manage anything better due to the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of your position.

    “The flock pray on their knees and the UCKG prey on their flock”

  75. Alvaro Elias Says:

    Look to the “Holy men” speaking that he is suffering personal abuse. Please go up on the coments and you will see him calling the preacher a bastard!..

    “My daughter believes because some exploitative bastard of preacher has convinced her that this is so.”

    DON’T give pearls to PIGS!…

  76. jaycueaitch Says:

    Bastard is an entirely appropriate word for a grown man who exploits a 14 year old girl’s naivity.

    If I am the PIG or SWINE to which you refer, why not follow your own advice?

    “The flock pray on their knees and the UCKG prey on their flock.”

  77. Malisa Davies Says:

    About two years ago I had a serious spiritual problem and if it hadn’t of been for the UCKG and their kind and supportive Pastors I would not be alive today.

  78. jaycueaitch Says:

    Thirty years ago I had a serious spiritual problem and if I had not come to realise that religion is fraudulent I would probably have gone mad.

    You see why unevidenced assertion people might choose to post prove nothing?

  79. Gods true disciple Says:

    I was bullied as a child in UCKG!!!! – 1 pastor told me I was sent 4rm d devil n humuliated constantly!

    I HATE U-C-K-G

  80. N Says:

    if it were not 4 the uckg. i wudnt b here. i jus thank the pastors n assistants of the uckg for helping me thru all da problems i hav faced. god bless

  81. Chris Says:

    HeJ jaycueaitch,

    I would like to ask you a question.

    Can you tell that you really really happy and fulfilled in Life?

    You dont need to respond to me,answer it to your self.

    Thanks for your time and comments.

    Chris

    Canada,Mexico,Usa-soon there will be one country,same money,same law. same…..

    P.S. Jesus loves you

  82. Pam I Says:

    Stop Press !!! UCKG just got busted by the Advetising Standards Authority for publishing a misleading poster. Search under ‘blesssed oil’ and you’ll find reports of the case, sorry don’t have the links to hand.

    Of course the poster has long gone but the sweet taste of victory will linger for years.

    Venceramos !

    • Lily Says:

      Come on you atheist and naturalist… you can’t win anything… you would have to tread upon God’s cadaver in order to win anything… your lifestyle and conceptions of life are actually what you should be concerned about. By the way, your attempt of writing in portuguese was also a failure… it’s wrong and misspelled… ironically you already looked scared at your picture when looking to the sky…

      • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

        If oil comes from Tescos, sainsburys or Asda and we bless it, it is Holy oil, if it Comes from Jordan, that’s nice, but it is the blessing on the oil that makes it Holy, anyone with an iQ above 2 can work that out surely?
        Holy water, it’s the same, it’s the blessing on the water that makes it Holy, and I don’t care if it comes from the tap or is highland spring, or the 19p bottles you get from the stores, if my pastors or assistants have blessed it it’s Holy enough for me, and I have faith for that, thanks, as for the advertising agency, well, what else have they got to do? as far as I am concerned, they would have been better off joining one of our campaigns, they could have got a more demanding and interesting and colourful job! poor things!

  83. alvaro elias Says:

    PlEASE PEOPLE DON’T THROW PEARLS TO THE SWINE!….

  84. Tristan Says:

    Seems the leader of the UKCG, along with a few others, have been dirty scamming fraudulent bastards: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/23553/universal-church-kingdom-god-fraud

    Oh dear!

  85. jaycueaitch Says:

    Thanks for that link Tristan.

    They condemn themselves in their own publication:

    http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/the-uckg-magazine-faith-in-action/

  86. Norbury Says:

    Bloody hell, you attract some weirdos jqh!

  87. gabby Says:

    Listen Alot Of People R Talkin but dey avnt even been to the UCKG!
    The UCKG has helped me soo much its helped mee with DEPRESSION SUCIDAL THOUGH SELF HARMIN
    I DONT CARE BOUT WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY ! THE UCKG!!!! HAS SAVED MY LIFE

  88. Pam I Says:

    Daer Gabby, no-one doubts that people can gain strength as you have done, not least from being in a large group of people all of whom wish you well. The problem is, the UCKG is on record as being corrupt. At the Brazilian HQ, the founder and a small group of others are currently being charged – not just investigated – with embezzling a huge amount of money. Some of that money will have come from donations handed over in the Uk branches. I bet if you asked to see an audit trail of your donations, you would not get very far.

    Other churches are available, you could benefit from having some other choices ready, in case you become disappointed by what UCKG will eventually demand from you. You may also benefit from talking to your doctor about your depression. Even the UCKG realises that real medicine can be helpful alongside their offer.

    • Lily Says:

      hey you look-to-the sky-scared, are you higher than the UK Charity Commission that has fully investigated the UCKG in UK and found it to be 100% correct? Are you higher than the Court System of our country who has spurned any claim against the UCKG credibility? The reality is, you hate the UCKG because it exposes your ways of living. But don’t worry, you will sooner or later found out the DNA of your hateful conceptions… whether in this world or in the one to come…

  89. ggg Says:

    there have been many articles written about the uckg from all around the world people saying they steal and they do witch craft but look bak at those articles and many if not all had to be retracted. so if u sir do not care for what the the uckg is about then pleas just dont read about it you have only shown the negative parts that gossip has made but you did not talk about the youth work the community work and the fact that thousands and thousands of people are helped daily and sometimes not even christians. because it is what it says its a help enter that has aepted and help people of many diffrent religions get job training and a new life and not by shoving a bible down there necks. i understand use this blog to vent and everyone is entitled to their on oppinion.

  90. Tshete Tjiane Says:

    i have been in school for almost over ten years without knowing the HOLY
    Bible in my life, but only singing the restations every fridays but never understanding anything about the word of God. i was smoking, drinking, doing wrongly things, but the year 2000 when i first put myself inside the
    church i changed completely of all above missery. i thanks God for His presents He has done upon me. In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

  91. Pam I Says:

    Loads of uckg bucket-shakers have popped up lately, begging on the streets in, mostly, poorer areas. They never quite say what they are collecting for. Presuming they are a registered charity – as of course street collection is illegal if you are not a registered charity – I’d love to see their audited accounts. Can one of you uckg lurkers tell me where on the website I can find a link to your accounts please?

  92. Liz Says:

    Hi Pam, the UCKG, as a registered charity, have to post their accounts on the Charity Commission website (google Charity Commission and then search for the UCKG). Their latest accounts (up to February 2009) have just been posted. You can see how much money they retain each year (millions), how big their assets are (over £22million) and how much they’ve ‘loaned’ to ‘sister churches’ – nearly £1million in the last year alone. What I’d like to know is why they retain so much money each year and why, seeing as their reserves are so large, they still insist on collecting even more. Most charities spend their donations, but not the UCKG. And yes, I’ve also noticed that the UCKG don’t actually say who they are or what they’re collecting for – merely saying ‘a Help Centre’ without saying what that actually is or who they actually are. Christian Aid don’t seem to have that problem… Funnily enough, Renato Cardoso, until recently head of the UCKG in the UK has headed off to Houston. Yup, Houston USA where the investigation into international money laundering and fraud has spread over the border from Brazil. Interpol are looking into it all too: http://www.afrol.com/articles/16487 – so maybe their investigation will look here too. After all, the Charity Commission investigated the UCKG for fraud and financial misdemeanours in 2003 and some of their trustees were forced to resign. Apparently you can get the report under FOI from the Charity Commission… might be worth a read eh?

    • Suzanie Says:

      Why do you keep saving even when you have a lot of money already? Why didn’t Bill Gates stop after his first 10 million tell Branson why are you retaining soo much. Do you know the average electricity and water bill of a 2500 sitter cathedral, well do you even know UCKG total expediture in this country we have something called auditors if there was fraud involved they would know about it before you did my dear

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        If you actually read the post you are commenting on, you would see that fraud investigations have taken place and given that a trustee resigned, it rather suggests something dodgy was found.

        I know the UCKG expenditure because I looked on the Charity Commission website.

  93. the enquirer Says:

    Hi pam – you should be able to get accounts from the charity commission website – all charities – indeed the uckg is a charity – need to send in their accounts – if the link doesnt work go to the charity commission and search for UCKG – it’s interesting that more than half of the money made by the UCKG in a year is not spent – but is kept in reserves… one might question what it is exactly that people are dontating towards??

  94. the enquirer Says:

    sorry – forgot the link! http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1043985&SubsidiaryNumber=0

  95. lizzy0ne Says:

    Thanks everyon for your comments in this thread. I will visit UCKG with an open mind to find things out for myself.

  96. alvaro Says:

    The SUCCESS of UCKG exposes the Failure of others, and create one thing!….ENVY!…The more UCKG has the more will do. Why don’t you give a Glance to Vatican? Do you know how many Trilions they have, in name of Social Care, and Benefecial Institutions? What about Church of England? Oh…By the way they closed 500 churches last years!…Funny Humm!…Are their accounts scroutinized as UCKG is? UCKG is open LEGALY in UK, and hasa been AUDITED for all this years and NOTHING has been found out of the law!…You are envious,blind,and seem to be a DUMB as well.

  97. eyesopen Says:

    How sad…
    I don’t believe envy is the issue here – I am definately not envious of an organisation who constantly takes from the poor to feed their empire. And I woudn’t say that the Catholic religion is any good either with the constant allegations of abuse etc. And this is not persecution. I’m an ex member and I’ve met good and bad pastors within UCKG and I know for a fact – you are one of the good ones having met you and I completely understand you defending your church. You are Loyal and kind.
    But these constant allgegations of fraud and misconduct – are you honestly saying to me that some of these allegations are not true?
    Having left the UCKG – Jesus has led me to understand the covenant of grace – no sacrifice required – just his grace. Why is this not preached? You are basically saying that Jesus’s sacrifice was not enough. It was done at the cross.

  98. A Second Year of Steam « Letting Off Steam Says:

    [...] well as the al.med crowd, for family reasons I investigated the money-grubbing activities of the mystery-mongerers who call themselves the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God – and did I stir up a [...]

  99. tegababy Says:

    i greet u all in the name of jesus christ our lord,whatever i have to say here is solely for the hearing and reading of the true christians on this page,because our lord jesus christ has revealed to us the truth about life,because it is writen that”your word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.” and also,the lord will show me the path of wisdom.
    if any one of u children of God on this page doubts the church,all u have to do is find out what their beliefs about God is,its all on google.besides,as children of God,we should be sensitive to the things of the holyspirit,whatever UCKG is,good or bad,the holy spirit will convince you.meanwhile,time is too short for us to fight over the truth about churches,let us rather set our minds on heavenly things that matter for the coming of our lord is very near.what really matters as children of God,is having a true and personal relationship with our lord jesus christ,do u have a true relationship with him?thats the question we should be asking ourselves?
    i love u all children of God.

  100. Hannah Says:

    the UCKG does nothing but good, and you canot see it because the devil is working within you causing you to be blind to the light of God. if theres anyone possessed with evil it is you. my friend wake up and repent your sins for the Lord says “Deny me and I shall deny you too in front of my Father”. it is not to late to turn away from sin.all you true believers in the Lord Jesus Christ remember where you came from and what God has done for you in your life in order to remail firm in faith. the overcomer is not the one who starts the race but the one who finishe it. May Godbless you all!

  101. Elizabeth Says:

    The UCKG does alot of charitable work (recently for HATI) and have helped billions of lives, have kept teenagers off the streets!

    Have any of you been their long enough to investigate if the uckg is really in the wrong!? (oh I thought not!) I’ve been there since I was a child and was very involved; and guess what there nothing the news makes them out to be!

    THE PASTORS HAD NO CLUE ABOUT THE ABUSE THE LITTLE GIRL SUFFERED -she was heavily covered and it was winter so naturally no one questioned her!

    The evil aunt started attending the UCKG 2 days before the little girl died and it was the previous church she had attended that is at fault [they knew what the little girl went through -and unable to handle this referred her to us (the church they loathe)].

    Why do people and media always point fingers at the good and glorify the wrong?!

    The UCKG does not do any cults, rituals, sacrifices or whatever you lie about

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      I have examined the charity work here. 80% of the funds they raise are spent on the provision of church services – which are a major income stream.

      And do you honestly expect anyone to believe that the UCKG has helped “billions” of people? You should try to make your lies plausible.

      Your capitilsed sentence should be punctuated with a full stop after the word CLUE. Victoria was severely injured including bruising to the face – it must have been obvious that something was wrong. Instead the pastor just accepted that the little girl was possessed.

      The evil aunt was attending the church for more than two days. No other church was involved – you are lying here.

      What would you call demon-summoning if not a ritual?

      • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

        Good morning, do the maths then dear, if 80 percent of the money is spent of the provision of services and the services are a ‘major income’ is that because 80 percent of that money is spent on the provision of services?, have a little think there darling, you see if 80 percent of the money is being spent on the provision of services then that only leaves 20 percent to pay all the pastors and provide for their families, that is food, accommodation and clothing, hell, what a lifestyle!

        Have a nice day!

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        That’s 20% of over £22million just in the UK. About £4.5 million, a number you are carefully avoiding giving.

        How many pastors share this money?

  102. speak the truth Says:

    i was quite confused when i came across this site and saw UCKG being bad mouthed.

    QUESTION: to the person who made this blog and all of you who are against UCKG and that are bad mouthing the church , have u ever , EVER attended the services or even been inside…?

    if not then , you miight aswell re-think and delete your comments because it makes no sense, how can u say a church is evil … (blah.. all the other things u said) but yet u have never been there to judge it yourself.
    UCKG is a church of GOD.
    all these comments go to show that satan’s really at work in the world.
    i have nothing else to say, i’d like it if no-one replys to this comment but just thinks it through and maybe vist your local UCKG branch.
    all i have been seeing is links and ”research”. why can’t you check it out yourself instead of a second party.

    i will pray that GOD opens your eyes jst like he did for me.
    GOD BLESSX

  103. IBF Says:

    I AM NOT HERE TO DEFEND THE UCKG WHO AM I TO DEFEND WHAT IS GODS? What i seem not to understand is why people like this reporter will spend so much time and effort in trying to condemn what is written in the bible. As for you practising Christians who condemns the work of God if u read the bible mark 9 speaks about the posses boy. And also if you read as well the same bible also says that God is the same today tomorrow and forever. So if it happened back then in the bible what’s stopping it from happening now? And for the reporter who wrote all this why don’t you write about jayz or beyonce or eminen who blatantly say on their songs that they are demon possessed. jayz new song says jesus cant save you life starts when the church ends. My advice is for you to open your eyes that’s if ur not permanently blinded by the work of the devil. Well like they say the devil dose control the media.
    and if it is possible to hypnotise a person (according to you) don’t you think it is possible to set a person free from demons? u agreed to your friend being hypnotized so why don’t u think?. There’s always a two way about things. yes or no if there positive there negative.

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      There is no evidence that the Bible’s accounts of possession are true.

      Saying “It must be true because it’s God’s Word – it says so in the Bible” is simple circular reasoning and thus proves nothing.

      But as it happens it is the actions of the UCKG that I’m condemning.

  104. Pedro Says:

    I cannot belive some of the comments to your blog. The UCKG is NOT a Christian Church, no matter how liberal how conservative your view of Christianity is. The UCKG is a complete and very dengerous scam, and the only, not the main, objective of it is to extract money form its victims. Please watch my short video on youtube explaining some of it and please help with letter writing to denounce their pass actions and the lack of vigilance from the authorities and the media.

  105. Gloria Says:

    Please feel free to visit any UCKG and see for yourself if they are practising cult etc

  106. Ann Says:

    The UCKG is not a Christian church – it is a cult whose only aim is to enrich itself.

    Macedo [promises the poor health and wealth], which they never get, while he and his bishops live in luxury – they wear Rolex watches, designer clothes, adorn their wives in diamonds and own expensive fancy cars. I know this because I was a member of the UCKG for 4 years until the good Lord opened my eyes and showed me what they were really like, took me out of it and I joined a true Christian church; one in whom Jesus Christ is Lord.

    How can [people like this] be Christians? They do worship a god and Lord Mammon is his name.

    I can’t stand them.

    • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

      Hello dear, What is it you can’t stand, would you like our bishops and pastors to walk around smelly and wearing crap, the point is, that if you look rough, get ambitious and raise the standard, when did the pope go into Primark and buy some cheap joggers to wear and a £3.50 t shirt. The point is, that if you worked your buttocks off all day long to become a bishop you could enjoy the same luxuries, and to be quite truthful out of the 20 percent left to feed and house and clothe the ministry I think there is a little exaggeration going on here. To be a Bishop, you have to start with cleaning the bogs and street evangelism and work your pants off for years, never losing your cool when people are talking rubbish and blaming you for their silly lives all day because they wont listen and all sorts, could you do that? I assume your life didn’t change, I think you should take a look at value for money. You are being taught day in and day out, prayed for, when did you last get up at 3 am ,put your clothes on waddle off down the road so you could pray for people in a book on the alter, and then go home, change your knackers, sleep for 2 hours, get up change and start all over again?I think it bothers you because you are basically mean, mean spirited and tight fisted. I think it’s lovely if people can afford nice things, and there is no need to be jealous, just pray, ‘may the blessing that they have fall on me also’ and there you go, learn the key, if you listen to the pastors instead of being a misery guts, and finding fault,you could probably have the same, instead, your like the jews who mumbled in the desert for 40 years! Why, come back and start again and stop being to begrudging! wasn’t Joseph and Abraham blessed with wealth when they showed their faith to God? Jesus lived a life of poverty that doesn’t mean we have to be poor or sincere, we can be rewarded the same way because it is bliblical, we don’t take it with us when we die, but we are allowed dignity in life that you clearly don’t wish to have otherwise you would have stayed to learn how to change things.

  107. eyesopen Says:

    I am saddened by the comments of UCKG members – if only they knew the scale of the deception. The UCKG use a very sophsticated form of brain washing to target certain areas and a certain race of people with the aim of enriching themselves. Open 7 days a week? Offering three services a day? The only church to offer this service? – Wow! A 24hr phone line, a training centre, helping other charities? – Looks great on paper, and now they’ve enlisted a pr company to help their image – too little, too late I think. I am angry by this organisation and the senior pastors of the church because I know there are good people currenty at this church being decieved and I can say this being an ex member.

    Members – please review their accounts and UNDERSTAND them. THE UCKG ARE ASSET RICH!!! – Its legal and you are funding this.
    Why are you constantly fundraising, why are you sacrifcing your money, car, jewels etc? To “get God’s attention”? – This is a lie from hell – it is a very smart way of embezelling money from you.
    Look at the following video if you don’t believe me and listen to the man himself. God bless you.

  108. jaycueaitch Says:

    I blogged on the financial aspects of their UK operation here. It does seem to be very profitable.

  109. Steve Says:

    Please read report in the English national newspaper, The Times. This so-called “church” is the devil in disguise:

    ‘Church encourages worshippers into debt’

    Mark Bridge
    Last updated November 20 2010 12:01AM

    Followers of a church in the UK are urged to sell all their possessions and default on bills to fund ‘gifts to God’

    A Pentecostal church with 10,000 followers in some of the poorest parts of Britain is encouraging worshippers to sell all their possessions and default on their bills in order to donate more money to the Church, an investigation by Times Money has found.

    The Universal Church of the Kingdom of God is also using false testimonies to tout for “offerings” from its congregation. It even uses sessions supposedly designed to help its worshippers with their financial troubles to elicit more donations.

    At one of these sessions, witnessed by Times Money, the pastor encouraged his congregation to give cash in exchange for strips of his tie, which he said were invested with God’s power and could make financial miracles happen. The Church’s aggressive pursuit of tithes and offerings means that donations dwarf those made at mainstream churches. The Church’s accounts state that it received £8.8 million in donations in 2008-09, the most recent year for which figures are available. This is an average of £225,558 per congregation — 600 per cent more than raised by the Church of England.

    The Universal Church is no stranger to controversy. In 2003, the Charity Commission ordered its trustees to implement a child protection policy after pastors failed to raise the alarm when Victoria Climbié was brought to a service to be exorcised of demons. The Church now has a policy in place.

    [EDITED: I have removed most of this post as cutting and pasting entire articles is almost certainly in breach of copyright legislation]

  110. Natania Robala Says:

    Hmm… for me, UCKG is my home sweet home. You may visit my blog http://ninimonyek.blogspot.com
    to read my experienced since I came to the UCKG 3 years ago. And stil many other blessings I gain thats not written on my blog yet. If God did not send the men/women of God from this church I do believe by now I have been dead and gone to hell. The truth is you can never judge something you don’t know and why used such a bad words? It tells who you really are :)

  111. ......too funny Says:

    do yoou know whats funny is dat number 1 you believe BBC news lool were 99.9% of the time wat is sed is a bunch of lies they never let us no the 100~% truth to any story 2nd of all you writing this posting this up is nto going to make a difference at all the UCKG will always grow and will never ever i mean ever stop. And the UCKG does whats bible based jus like how abraham sacrificed his son that ment the much to him and God blessed him wid nations they do the same today doesnt the bible say God the same yesterday today and forever for those that are christians so they do the same today they take what means soo much to dem and they sacrifice n God blesses them wid much more simple as that comeee onn do u really think that if people im talking humans yeah if something dont work for them they aint gona carry on in it so y wuld people hu attend the UCKG waste there time if it didnt change there lives comme onn perrleezz u carry on doing did it doesnt change nothing the UCKG is and will always be around growing n breaking through… lool u got time n i cnt wait for judgement day loool too funny

  112. lazola Says:

    Whether the uckg is from God or not God will have the final say,and if demons exist or not is like compromising whether satan exists,to me all those who say demons they don’t exist are saying they don’t believe in the Lord jesus or God or you just have nothing to do with your spare time,stop pouring water on other and do something better with your lives than looking @ your neighbours problems and deal with yours

  113. lazola Says:

    Whether the uckg is from God or not God will have the final say,and if demons exist or not is like compromising whether satan exists,to me all those who say demons they don’t exist are saying they don’t believe in the Lord jesus or God or you just have nothing to do with your spare time,stop pouring water on other and do something better with your lives than looking @ your neighbours problems and deal with yours. Uckg man up, satan is not happy and I like it when he is not happy.

  114. inquisitie Says:

    I have one question for all UCKG attenders:
    What do you think about the video of your bishop maicedo talking about how he extracts money from his congregation? VIDEO BELOW:

    I am not in support of the UCKG or against the UCKG, but I would like to know what UCKG attenders think of this…as a Christian, it is saddening that such uncertainties of whether a church is legitimate or not in its practise might cause people to leave the presence of God.

    God bless all who read this with the opening of the eyes of their heart to Jesus Christ.

    • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

      Good morning Inquisitie, the point is what is actually done with the money. I am a member of the uckg, regardless of how negatively you see this church the questions remain, is it effective in changing people’s lives for the better or not? It is quite clear to me, having seen with my own eyes, that regardless of now rough and ready the call for funds is, this church shows others how to build upon their faith and how to illiminate sin, and there fore vulnerability from their lives. if you sin, you are vulnerable, ie if you live with someone and you are not married, you risk all kinds of emotional difficulties, single parenthood, being used, etc the church lines up fully with the Bible in teaching these things, this is practical faith. If the church just wanted money, there are things it would not say, it would pander to it’s congregation and be careful not to hurt people’s feelings, you heard in this video, Bishop Macedo say himself,
      ‘people are sick of the false humility’
      and so they are, people need the devils’ backside kicked out of their lives, there is no point lighting a candle and your life is pull of demonic possession, and I am not knocking the practice of lighting a candle when people pray, but isn’t it more important to be practical and get the work done? who pays for the electricity, the heating, the cleaning and maintainance of the buildings, people need taking care of. When you come to one of our buildings, you will find it beautiful, welcoming clean and you will find kind people there who will be honest with you and compassionate. we produce literature and do 110 other things that are community based, don’t tell me we run the elders club because visiting the elderly, cleaning for them and taking care of them is profitable. How is visiting prisoners financially profitable for us? No where is perfect, thank God, otherwise when any one of walked in the door it would cease to be but Get real, when people are aggressive in order to save the fluffy ducklings from extinction, that’s fine, When it boils down to saving the humans, this is what you get, people being prissy about the language used, pathetic!

  115. Ann Says:

    The UCKG is a dangerous cult that manipulates and [extracts money from] its congregations… Macedo is evil [and] greedy [as are] his “bishops”. The sickening thing is that they do all this in the Name of Jesus. Which Jesus do they serve?

    This comment has been editted. Changes in square brackets. JQH

  116. Toini Mweenda Says:

    IF THE WORLD ARE PLEASED WITH WHAT WE ARE DOING THAN, SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH US, BUT IF THE WORLD HATES US FOR WHAT WE ARE DOING THAN, WE MUST PRAISE GOD, COS THE LORD IS PLEASED WITH OUR WORK AND THAT HE IS WITH US. THE WORLD DISLIKE JESUS BEFORE FOR THE TRUTH SO WE GO IN THE SAME PATH HE WALKS AND TEACH US WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH.

    THE MORE YOU BIT US THE MORE WE GROW, WE ARE LIKE OMMELETT.YOU ARE EVEN EVAGELISING FOR US BECAUSE THE MORE YOU TELL RUMORS TO THE NATIONS THEY WILL COME AND SEE, HEAR THE TRUTH FOR THEM SELFS. THOSE WHO WERE AMONG US AND THEY LEFT BECAUSE OF TITHE,OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES, THEIR INTENTIONS WAS FOR MATERIALS BLESSINGS AND NOT TO SEEK THE LORD WITH THEIR WHOLE HEART FOR THEIR SALVATION.

    REMEMBER GOD IS NOT TO BE MOCKED WHAT EVER YOU SOW TODAY TODAY YOU WILL REAP. THE MORE YOU SPEAK BAD ABOUT THE MAN OF GOD THE MORE GOD WILL MAKE THEM MIGHTY WARRIORS, AND THE COWARDS WILL RUN AWAY BUT THE CHOSEN NATION OF GO WILL REMAIN STANDING STRONG. THE RAIN, STORM, FIRE, CAN COME UPON US, IT WILL NEVER MAKE US TO SHIVER BUT STANDING WITH THE SHIELD OF, YOU WHAT BECAUSE OUR NAMES IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    I CAME TO UCKG IN A TERRIBLE SITUATION, AND I SEE THE POWER OF GOD THERE IN UCKG, WHICH I HAVE NEVER SEE IN MY FORMER CHURCH.

    I ADVICE YOU TO KEEP ON BEATING US AND WE WILL JUST GROW AND GROW AND GROW NOTHING AND NO ONE WILL SEPARATE US FROM OUR LORD JESUS.

    GOD BLESS YOU.

    TANCY (NAMIBIA)

  117. H Says:

    Jaycueaitch, did you ever get a reply to the email that you sent to the UCKG? Have you had contact with the pastor concerned since your original posts? How is your stepdaughter now?

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      The UCKG never replied. For some reason I’m not surprised. My stepdaughter is away from that church now and she’s fine. For a normal teenage definition of fine!

  118. Dave Says:

    Pastors of UCKG need not bring themselves to your level Spiritually speaking and do not owe any explaination or apology. You just need to know the truth and it shall set you free!!!! Visit amazing discovery website or get a copy of the book 50 year in the church of Rome by Charles Chuniquy and you will know the truth that will set you free and help you find salvation for your soul. Time is to short Jesus may come anytime while u are busy forcusing on activities of other chuches. I concur with the one who said you are an anti-Christ,your argument sounds like the one of the agent of satan. Hands off UCKG, here in South Africa we are grateful of the work of GOD it doing and opening the eyes of poeple about demonic possession. Teaching poeple of how fight for deliverance from evil force which possesses lives of many unknowingly world wide!!! VIVA JESUS VIVA,VIVA UCKG VIVA

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      The truth will indeed set you free. That is why UCKG puppets like you tell lies all the time and smear people like me who tell the truth about your deeply unpleasant organisation.

  119. Pam I Says:

    Scaring poor people with lies about ‘evil forces’ is barbaric and belongs back in the stone age. There are no ‘evil forces’, just just pretty evil behaviours.

  120. Pam I Says:

    Scaring poor people with lies about ‘evil forces’ is barbaric and belongs back in the stone age. There are no ‘evil forces’, just some pretty evil behaviours.

  121. Jimmy Rebel Says:

    I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO ALL THESE SPECULATIONS AND PROBLEMS……WHY DOT YOU GO THERE AN SEE WHAT THEY ARE REALLY ABOUT INSTEAD OF BEING COWARDS WHO HIDE IN THIER ROOM BEHIND THE INTERNET SPREADING ROUMORS…. JUST SO YOU KNOW IM NEITHER FOR OR AGAINST THE UCKG

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      Are you aware of the internet convention that typing in capitals is considered shouting?

      It is not speculation. I and others have posted first hand knowledge here.

  122. Suzanie Says:

    You shouldn’t talk about things you don’t know or things you don’t understand! Why believe the accounts of ex members with a little common sense wouldn’t you judge them to be a bit biased? And just because an article is covered and produced by BBC does that automatically make it fact? Is that how facts are proven now a days turn on the tv or read a newspaper and thats how you can unequivocally validate stories? The UCKG is changin people of all ages lives ALL over the world. In a country as advanced as England; wouldn’t they have shut down the church by now if it was really the threat to society that you make it out to be??? Let us use some common sense if you the lay person were able to find these things out don’t you think the police could have investigated and closed the church down by now? BUT instead the church GROWS and GROWS and as Jesus is with them your words, your little blog post and how many souks are you fighting to save 7 days a week?your strength you are NEVER going to stop the UCKG from growing just like Rome couldn’t defeat the primitive church! Ps I’m one of the young people the UCKG helped to turn my life around completely! Why don’t you tell my parents and friends what a terrible thing they did? He without sin should cast the first stone!
    And p.s MR Blogger

  123. jaycueaitch Says:

    Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they “do not understand”. I have first hand knowledge of the things of which I speak and your illiterate rants are not going to make that go away.

  124. Mpumeh Says:

    Stop critising churchs.who are u 2 judge a church that was created by God.

  125. Mandla Says:

    Hi every one. I just saw this today , i’m also a ex member of the UCKG & i don’t have any reason what so ever to be baised here. all i want to say is when i was there for 6years I never saw a person being forced to do what he or she did n’t want to do. Also every thing that was done was based on faith which by the way comes by hearing the word of God (Without faith it is imposible to please God, faith without action is dead. Read Hebrews 11).
    My advise to us is please may we start as christians to be focusing on what God says we must do & stop criticising others because there’s no one gaining from this instead we might even end up loosing salvation fighting each other & trying by all our fleshly wisdom to prove that orthers are wrong or right, that is for God to do for us if He sees a need for it to be done, for He knows the right time & place to do justice He is a perfect God Him & only Him alone.
    And please let us stop blaming others for what happens in our life, each & every person is responsible for what happens in life because we have the power to change it if we just allow God to work on us for us to be like Him as we are supose to be( Let us go create man in our image & likeness ).
    May the Lord bless you all in Jesus Christ name, LOVE YOU LOTS.
    The last part please christians & non christians do not try to understand each other because you are talking different languages, flesh can’t understand spirit also spirit can’t understand flesh so you will just have different understandings all the time. remember if a person is born of God flesh is dead & spiritual thing can be reveled to him by God, on the other hand flesh understands worldly things ( science,logic ect) it needs to see first before believing.
    God is good & He’s not blind. no one will missuse His name & not reap.

  126. Deflecting Criticism 3 – Whataboutery « Letting Off Steam Says:

    [...] also employs whataboutery against criticisms of the amount of money the UCKG retains: “Why don’t you give a Glance [...]

  127. MATHE Says:

    YOU people of GOD dont u fear GOD for what u are saying, only GOD WILL JUDGE. Instead of arguing about the church GO OUT to save soul ,because HE [ JESUS] is near. Just be concern about ur SALVATION, GOD LOVES YOU ALL.

  128. Helen Carr Says:

    Your article is base on lies and more lies to try to stop the work of God to carry on. But you cannot stop us we are doing according to the Words of the LORD. satan have sent you but he have failed. satan get out of the UCKG.

  129. Helen Carr Says:

    I am a member in the UCKG since 1996/97 and these allegations are so incorrect. When the devil uses people like this is because they are serving the devil and are wolves in sheep clothing. God sees and hears all things, He (God) was here before the world began and has created this world from nothing. He also knows who will persecute His Churches, people must realise when a Church is persecuted is because it is doing all and more than is required for the Kingdom of God. I know the LORD is holding the UCKG high up that His Words will be preach thoughout this world and many more souls will be save. Before you write these articles I am inviting you to come and see for yourself. Why should the UCKG meet with you? If you so think and know that we are doing wrong then take actions against us. It is written that the Righteous do not sit in the counsel of the ungodly. Stamp the devil on his head in the name of Jesus and he will flea from you! Helen Carr UCKG Member.

  130. marv Says:

    The Same way the talk about our lord Jesus christ ,that he is prince of devil .they hate Jesus ministry,and thats why they hate UCKG so much remember when Jesus say to the rich man sell all you have an give to the poor he went away vex .that how many of youare ,who turn back from the UCKG your mony is your God .from abraham to solomon all make sacrifices and God bless them .if prayer an tears could change people lives the world would be better place ,but there some thing some lazy people refuse to do and his to lift a finger . dont misunderstand our LORD sacrifice on the cross it was to save us give us salvation to rescue us from sin an death in order for our Lord to rescue us to himself to get what he wants he ofto sacrifice so you see even JESUS the son of the living God ofto sacrifice you dont sacrifice for salvation but if you want to live abetter life here on earth sacrifice is a must, everyone sacrifice but it depends on whoes alter you put yours on ,GOD or satan? remember if you not gathering for the Kindom of God you gathering for satan may God help your soul read yu bible JESUS says these peole draw close to me with there lips but there heart is far from me .woe to you who perfess to be christian with just words an no action leave the uckg alone stop babbleing you shut up the kingdom of heaven on those who want to entering you yourself not entering and you are hindering others from entering as well .God opens the eyes of those who are spiritually blind Holy spirit in the name OF Jesus speak to these people today.thank you father creator of Heaven n Earth in Jesus name Amen

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      So accumulating money consigns you to hell? That what you’re saying? Macedo and his cronies are screwed then.

      • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

        Good morning,
        Aaah, “screwed aye?” isn’t that nice to know. so why bother posting comments? it’s all taken care of walley!

  131. Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

    jacueaitch, I think you are just jealous because you live in a smelly council flat where people poo in the lift.You don’t have to you know, if you had some sense and joined us you could do sacrifices and learn loads, because our church is like an everlasting BA Honours degree in Jesus Christou, and then you would know how to combat the world and be wealthy and help other people too.Sacrifice is the spice of life. i’ts what makes the world turn around. everybody scrifices, but not all sacrifices benefit the soul. People stand there is hundreds of pounds of sports wear telling me that the church steals because it takes money ‘for God’. Yes, and the more the merrier, that way we can make more churches, Do the maths jaycueaitch, we get millions, and build churches that cost millions and that leaves?………So, our Bishop lives in a beautiful palace, good, he is supposed to, he’s not a flippin milkman, he is supposed to be blessed and respected. If a smelly football star lives in a mansion, being shallow and twitty all day, everyone thinks it’s great, it’s alright isn’t it if evil people have money, or couldn’t care less people are rolling in it. so what about Gods people, by the way I love the white and Gold combination, it’s so scumptious don’t you think jaycueaitch? I mean as far as colour is concerned, less is definiately more, it’s so regal! Oh, but I think i would have a feature wall in the bedroom. Feature walls in temporary accommodation don’t look the same really do they?
    Oh, yeah, and sacrifice! Come on peeps lets do it!!!!!!
    I love it, it cause it gets right up your nose and other people like you and the devil, because it shows which side we vote for and believe in. we get our money as much as possible and go on an enforced diet (not that i ever lost any weight!) and put our shekels on the alter with faithl. like Abraham did and down go the walls of jericho. You havn’t discovered it yet, because you would rather sit and watch east enders and eat pizza and them come on line and do a fart from time to time at Gods people who find it all very amusing.
    Well, you could join us, you don’t have to show yourself up you know!
    Have a nice day Mr Wind tunnel!
    from Macedo Cronie.
    PS, I think i would take a risk with mid tan leather though, just a modern touch here and there, you know, what do you think jaycueaitch?

  132. Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

    I have lived in a smelly council flat, i live in a hostel, AAh but not for much longer, because of all the things I learned and the campaign of Israel and God and well it goes on and on, and now I am looking forward to the near future which is very riddled with happiness and peace and comfort, after a life time of ill health, and misery.
    JOIN US and find true peace and joy, what have you got to loose, did you know what custard tasted like til you had some, no, then try the custard kiddo and stop the breeeeeeeze!

  133. Ofentse Says:

    I always suspected there was something wrong with uckg thanks to people like you.after going to many churchz i concluded by saying uckg is part of the body of christ and accusers are just doing what your father the devil is sending you to do.always remember that if “u fall upon the rock you shall be broken,yet when it falls on you will be crushed”said jesus.stop your lies and decieving people,many thing happens in the world bt when something small happens around Gods people all evil tounges raise.MAY THE LORD REBUKE YOU!

  134. Private Says:

    Thats my church u talking about!

  135. marva Says:

    You are so evil its ok to talk bad about the UCKG isn’t it but when good things. Happen you alll afraid to testifie. Such hyprocrite you shoul

    • Helen Phillips-bAtman Says:

      it’s true Marva, but people like this are everywhere, the fact is , that whoever is ashamed of Jesus Christ , Jesus shall be ashamed of him. Either we confess him or we are pagan, simple. God bless Marva, always testify, don’t be like these people!X

      • arthur Says:

        wow. All you uckg followers seem to be completly brain washed by this money making corporate machine. I pity you [redacted]

      • Helen Phillips-Batman Says:

        Hello Arthur, have a little look at Malachi, it’s in the Bible you know, the last book of the old Testament. There you go, it explains how the system works, God made it and let’s face it Arthur, if you are a poor desperate person, and there are far too many, you cannot help anyone, you can’t help other poor people, you cannot help yourself, you may have to steal for a living, and life can be wretched. Who does not want the favour of God, simple, pagans. Have a look at the charity work that uckg does, all the community work, why do you think our Bishop won a nobel peace prize, he didn’t get it painting and decorating, or selling poppies ( not that that there is anything wrong in that), The world is pathetic, you want Christians to be poor so that you can say,”your God is trash, if he loved you why do you live like this” If we are well off and part of a corporate body (essential ) you say “look, they are thieves, brain washed etc”
        the fact is, you go to your sports shops, you buy the clothes that the world tells you , makes you desirable and fashionable, 300 percent mark up, made by kids going blind in sweat shops, you feel great, put on the after shave that promises you loads of sex, get your hair done the way you think makes you look fab and sexy and every you buy and listen to is geared to making you a mug!!!
        yes, you actually pay a fortune to lose your soul, act like a twit, and never find happiness, and then there is all the socio, economic repocussions of all of that. So have a think about who is brain washed. And the music you people download and listen to, i could write a better song pushing my trolly around in sainsbury’s! Holy hell, and then you all dance to it, please Arthur, you have a think about that the next time you go into a shop and pay £120 for trainers, they look nice when you die as long as they don’t get too bloody.
        Read Malachi and think about the truth.
        God bless you,
        Helen

  136. Martha Says:

    Couldn’t agree more with this blog. Been in many of these churches around the world and brought up a Pentecostal. Done more harm than good. Been saying for years it resembles hypnotism and not of god . Glad your eyes have been openedjay .prosperity preaching isnot in line with gospel and i hate the spiritual superiority in these places. They are dangerous and need to be held accountable like anyone else.

    • Martha Says:

      And Helen don’t pity arther or patronise the rest until the day you come before the true god. U sound like a typical pentecostal ! Sorry for typos on new phone.

    • marva Says:

      If prosperity is not from God then why dont you stop work and go live on the street as a begger. People like you put the word of God into none effect if it were people like you who make money your Godintothen the gospel wouldnt even reach next door the work of God would a been shut down long time if you holding on to materials things and are afraid to surender to God all that have both physically financially most of all spiritually Mary did that and many more did in the bible and there life change for the better not worst, some people confess God with there lips but there heart is far from him say they know God but denying his power, hypocrites. You better let go off this bitterness n stop been the agent of satan repent and let God use you because nothing that you have belong to you they was just loan to us we will ofto leave them behind soon .what you think. ?

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        Think about what you have written in your first sentence. If I didn’t work I would lose such prosperity that I have. Clearly therefore it comes from human agency and not from your god.

  137. Mark christian Driscoll Says:

    For God so loved the World that he give his only begotten son that whoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting LIFE

  138. Simba Says:

    I love the way the comments from believers here are actually more convincing than the skeptical ones or the original blog post. My first thought is: “And people want to belong to an organisation with these nutters?”

    I mean, there hasn’t been a single really on-topic post thus far, and they all seem incoherent, extremely angry, patronising, or hysterical, or any combination of the above.

    • Ali Says:

      Please don’t carry on argueing anymore we all have unanswered questions even those who love Jesus are not perfect and never will be until he returns all we can do is pray about the things that haunt plague or trouble us and i believe that any teenager who is not causing themselves or others harm we can be thankful for.

  139. marva Says:

    The tiime many people a sit and try to discourage people from going to the UCKG for help they should ask themselves what have we contributes to society they are just a leagues of satan agents even Christian are should i say so call because the Lord said any house divided against itself cannot stand so if christian dont unite then we surely going to fall, how can we fight the Lord bottle anything that the almighty God dont want he up root an cast it into fire, so i ask who made them judge over the Lord affairs Jesus Christ he is the only true and living judge so if you dont need the help of the UCKG then jjust stop argueing since 19-77 the UCKG has help millions and millions of people put there broken pieces back together and really its not the uckg or the pastors but is the Holy Spirit is working they are just instrument using by Jesus Christ. Matthew 23 v13 says woe unto you scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men you neither go in yourselves neither allowing them that are entering to go in.

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      If Jesus Christ is the only judge, why do you feel free to pass judgement on others hmm?

  140. julias Says:

    demons are there ,its a fact .and jesus is the only one with power to drive them out wen we call upon his name.

  141. prince Says:

    i was in the UCKG since a very young age. I can tell you the fact that they are … a fast money making cult.. I taught i new God but i didnt. The God that they put forward to there congregation is a God that i have to buy everything from including the holy spirit. They make you believe it so much. They tell people to sacrifice there all (savings account, car, house etc) to achieve something they are in need off(healing, job etc). the funny thing is people will do that and get a job that n unbeliever just walked into and got it… FOR all these DUMD sacrificing that these UCKG members are doing all the time to there so call God shouldnt there lives be the best in the world but instead they are the most broke people i have even seen in my life. yet they are so arrogant thinking the uckg id the only church that can save people. and yes they always put demons high using it to scared there stupid members who dont know the bible for them selves hence the reason why they are all lost.. there founder is a billionaire whiles his followers are so poor..Instead using his money to help people he is there enjoying.. when i was there so much people was homeless, some has no food but yet the pastors will be asking for all of there monies.. UCKG is the saddest thing that even happened in my life. i wish i never stepped foot in that play and stay there for all those years wasting my life away.. But i am really grateful my eyes open and i left and ever tho i had to start all over again an take baby step in my faith again to learnt all about God again but it was worth it…

  142. UCKG Member Says:

    Child Demon Possed – You Know A Tree By Its Fruit However Not Every Child Is Demon Possessed.

    You Can Question God For Answers But What A Man Sows He Reaps Not The Church So Don’t Criticise The Church For What A Man Has Done.

    How Can You Argue About The Things Of God When Your Living In The Flesh And If Your A Chrsitian Do Not Fight Your Own Blood But Against Principalities And Scorpians.

    The UCKG Is A Church From God That’s Why Its Succeded And Still Going On Till Now We Do Everything The Lord Jesus Done.

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