Scenar Bioresonance

[BPSDB] The Alt.Med crowd love their electronic “bioresonance” devices. Here is one which claims to cure all kinds of ills with electrical impulses “tailored to mimic the electrical discharges of the nervous system.”

From their website:

“The basic signal component is a bipolar pulse, consisting of a negative square-wave followed by a positive saw-tooth, starting and finishing at zero and lasting for a few microseconds. A number of these pulses may be packaged into a discrete burst (intensity) which itself may be repeated at a fixed default frequency. The individual pulses in these bursts (intensity more than 1) can themselves be spaced out (Z=10/close together, to 80/wide apart) to give a concentrated (deep) or diffuse (shallow) penetration, depending on local body density or depth of pain location.”

How is this mimicking “the electrical discharges of the nervous system”? The nervous system produces neither saw-tooth nor square waves. Furthermore, changing only the spacing of the pulses will not affect their penentration of the patient’s body.

“Scenar devices adhere to the concept that the maximum dosage required to effect change is the most appropriate. This is furthered by emphasis on increase of information rather than energy content, thus minimising the triggering of body
retaliation and adaptation mechanisms.”

This is just a load of jargon strung together and does not mean anything. Saw-tooth and square waves do not contain much in the way of information.

Perhaps I shouldn’t be so critical. It was developed by “Soviet top scientists” (although we are not told their names or any research they might have published. Making checking the claims a tad difficult):

“About Scenar
Almost twenty five years ago Soviet top scientists were tasked to look for a way of maintaining the good health of their cosmonauts without the use of pharmaceutical drugs, which are not appropriate in an environment where recycling of waste and water is essential.”

This sounds plausible – for about two seconds – until you realise that the recycling process that removes the body’s natural wastes from urine will also remove drug break-down products.

“Biofeedback dynamics can induce remarkably rapid healing, as function by unblocking ‘stuck’ energy resonances and repetitive central nervous system patterns, allowing the body to heal itself.”

What sort of energy are we talking about here? How does it resonate? How do these resonances become ‘stuck’? What does ‘stuck’ mean in this context. None of this is explained – probably because it is another collection of cobbled-together jargon. I doubt even the writer knows what s/he means.

To show how wonderful these devices are, a “summary of positive results is given” wherein two thirds of patients got completely better and one third showed some improvement. We are not told what their precise ailments were nor the actual numbers. In otherwords, cherry-picked results are given.

It gets better:

“A side effect of scenar treatment has been that by addressing and treating one illness with the device automatically led to improvements of other symptoms.”

Like a nineteenth century quack’s tonic, this thing cures everything at once.

and

“…after many years the Russians claim a complete absence of complications or negative side effects”

The classic woo claim. Sorry, anything that effects the body’s highly complex metabolic pathways to ring about a cure is inevitably going to have side effects. If it truly has no side effects then it has no effect at all.

Finally – there are four training courses, taking you from Level I to Level IV (sounds a bit like Dungeons and Dragons!) Each lasts two days and costs three hundred euros. All the medics who have spent six years of their lives and tens of thousands of euros learning their job must be fuming.

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241 Responses to “Scenar Bioresonance”

  1. youneedtoseetheresearch Says:

    Before making these comments you really should see the research behind SCENAR that is has been conducted over the past 20 years in Russia and has recently been translated. I suggest you go to the PATENT holder Australian subsidiary website for current research translations. http://www.ritmscenar.com.au . Click on technology and then click on publications.
    SCENAR is not alternative. It is a mainstream electrotherapy device with exact science behind it. Currently the Saint Petersburg First Aid Society is conducting a 2 year research ( due for completion in late 2009).
    Any questions – please feel free to contact me.

  2. jaycueaitch Says:

    I can’t see the technology publications as I need a log-in to your site. As you well know. I have no particular wish to give your company the details about me required to create the log-in so if I’m so wrong, why don’t you answer the points I make?

    And if it is so mainstream and exact science, why do you feel the meed to have this disclaimer on your website?

    Disclaimer
    The information contained in this website is for general
    information purposes only. The information is provided by
    RITM Australia Pty Ltd and whilst we endeavour to keep the
    information up-to-date and correct, we make no
    representations or warranties of any kind, express or
    implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability,
    suitability or availability with respect to the website or
    the information, products, services, or related graphics
    contained on the website for any purpose.

    Any reliance you place on such information is therefore
    strictly at your own risk. This site is not medical advice.
    For any medical issues, questions or information you should
    contact your health care professional.

    In no event will we be liable for any loss or damage
    including without limitation, indirect or consequential
    loss or damage, or any loss or damage whatsoever arising
    from loss of data or profits arising out of or in connection
    with the use of this website.

    http://www.scenar.com.au/disclaimer

  3. youneedtoseetheresearch Says:

    Actually log in is not required on the RITM site.

    Please go to http://www.scenar.com.au/docsys/list.php

    I have passed your details on to the Managing Director of Ritm Australia and she will post a comment to answer your questions.

  4. jaycueaitch Says:

    I clicked that link you gave so I can get onto the site. I saw a listing of publications but as soon as I click download, a log-in page appears, so I cannot read the publications without a log-in.

  5. TimW Says:

    The same happens to me, I can’t download any of the publications without registering.

  6. jaycueaitch Says:

    We’re all still waiting for the “Managing Director of Ritm Australia”.

  7. Elly Tomova Says:

    Hello everyone,

    My name is Elly Tomova and I am the Managing Director of RITM Australia – the Australian branch of RITM OKB ZAO.

    I do understand the confusion and frustration some of you experience in regards to the correctness of information about SCENAR therapy and devices. And I do agree that there are quite a lot of web sites presenting wrong and misleading information about the technology.

    I will try to answer some of your questions and concerns.

    What is SCENAR and how does it work?
    SCENAR stimulates the body’s own healing recourses by stimulating biological active points with electric impulses.

    SCENAR Technology is based on three major characteristics:

    Bipolar electro-impulses
    SCENAR generates a non-damaging and high-amplitude bipolar electro- impulse, which resembles the body’s physiological bio-currents. Due to the unique physical characteristics of the SCENAR impulse, the excitation of the thin peptidergic C-¬bres is higher in comparison with other methods of electrotherapy. In this way, without disturbance to cell function, a maximal part of the nervous tissue is activated, which is necessary for the achievement of optimal adaptation response from the patient’s body.

    Bio-feedback
    SCENAR is the ¬first electrotherapeutic device in the world working on the principle of real time biological feedback between the device and the body.
    Reading the permanent change of the skin impedance, SCENAR constantly modulates the form of its impulse. As a result each impulse is different in form from the previous one, which prevents the development of accommodation to the action before the organism has generated enough neuropeptides, necessary for overcoming the pathological process and achieving the restoration of homeostasis.

    Individually dosed influence
    In SCENAR technology, the method of individually dosed influence is realized using as a main criteria the lack of further dynamics of the complex impedance of the skin. SCENAR technology is based on the concept, that the minimal dose, necessary for achieving the desired effect, is optimal.
    Apart from the unique characteristics of the acting impulse and the presence of biological feedback, the considerably higher effectiveness of SCENAR in comparison with the common methods of electrotherapy is due to the possibility of SCENAR to be carried out during the therapeutic process itself, which permits the evaluation of the effectiveness of the procedure and its optimization effect.

    New devices are going to be released soon that will support one more characteristic. This however is still confidential information and will be announced with a press release.

    SCENAR history
    The first device was developed and produced in late 1970s by the Special Design Department at the Taganrog State University of Radio-engineering, Russia. In 1980 this Department transformed into a private Company called nowadays RITM OKB ZAO. The name of the engineer who invented the technology is Alexander Karasev. The first doctor who started trials on the device (at that time called ENS) is Dr. Alexander Revenko. Dr. Revenko developed the first treatment protocols and together with Dr. Yury Gorfinkel proved the efficiency of the technology.
    RITM OKB ZAO was involved in various Government projects and research programs including space programs.
    SCENAR technology became available for the rest of the world after the successful certification for CE Mark and ISO in Europe 8 years ago.

    There is a long list of Companies that have started producing SCENAR devices. Some of them have simply reverse engineered RITM SCENAR devices, others have accessed technical documentation through fake license agreements with RITM OKB ZAO. A quick web search will show that there are quite a few devices on the market claiming that they are SCENAR.

    SCENAR research
    We recently added a registration form to our website. Before then all files were freely downloadable. The reason we added the registration form is to collect more data about the market.

    This section is designed for our customers, SCENAR practitioners and researchers who are happy to provide their name and e-mail address.

    However we don’t mind other people accessing the page and I have created a generic user for them.

    This is: user: test, password: test. So, please feel free to log in and read. (the form is still in process of debugging, so it might not work from time to time and we apology for the inconvenience).

    Currently we have over 100 publications, clinical researches and doctor’s thesis in Russian language. The translation has already begun and we regularly update the page with new papers.

    SCENAR Training
    Training is essential for most medical devices. SCENAR is a complicated modality that requires training not only about how to work with the device but also what treatment protocols to use for each complaint.

    Level 1 Training in Australia is a 4 day course and covers basic knowledge about the device, functionality and the most common treatment techniques and practical applications.

    This level is obligatory for everyone who purchases a Professional SCENAR device for the first time. SCENAR devices are listed in the Australian TGA register and it is one of our obligations by law to provide detailed training to the users.

    Level 2, 3 and 4 are optional.

    A similar training schedule is implemented in Europe and both proved to be successful.

    Disclaimer
    Under Australian law we must have a disclaimer on our site. We are not doctors and can’t give medical advice. That’s what our disclaimer says.

    If you require more information, please do not hesitate to contact me either on this blog or on my e-mail.

    Best regards
    Elly

  8. jaycueaitch Says:

    What are “biological active points”? Surely every part of a living body is biologically active?

    Are you really claiming that a Soviet Era Russian University Department became a private company? In 1980? This was well before glasnost and perestroika. AFAIK private companies were illegal there in the Communist era and I certainly doubt the scientists would have been allowed to profit from Government funded research.

    Thanks for the log in. Turns out the papers you say are available are only abstracts. At least the ones I tried to access are. They do not appear to have been submitted to peerr-reviewed journals either.

    And your disclaimer is a bit more comprehensive than saying “We are not doctors” is it not?

  9. pv Says:

    SCENAR stimulates the body’s own healing recourses by stimulating biological active points with electric impulses.

    Hmm. It starts at below ground level and goes straight downhill from there. What a load of unadulterated tosh. Too right they’re not Doctors. Maybe they are comedy doctors, or witchdoctors.
    Whay not send the stuff to The Australian Council Against Health Fraud.

    • Brett Says:

      insert sarcasm here —> Yes…the ACAHF is a very strong organisation that has a lot of influence led by the rational and pure heart of the likes of Peter Bowditch :) I commend your choice of website and await trembling for my inevitable trial and burning at the stake.

  10. jaycueaitch Says:

    I suspect the rather comprehensive disclaimer quoted above might cover them.

  11. Allo V Psycho Says:

    “the excitation of the thin peptidergic C-¬bres is higher in comparison with other methods of electrotherapy”

    C’mon you guys, it’s a wind up! My background is in physics and biology and I laughed till my seat was wet over that one. What it does tell you, though, is that this is not a case of over-enthusiastic believers. It is a straightforward cynical con by people who are prepared to make up complete nonsense.

  12. A Year of Steam « Letting Off Steam Says:

    [...] Letting Off Steam Venting my anger at the woos « Scenar Bioresonance [...]

  13. Rev. Aaron Says:

    Have any of you who are challenging the claims of SCENAR had a chance to experience the device itself. If not you should because I know that if you have the answer in your head before you ask the question that it is almost impossible to arrive at the answer that is true.

  14. jaycueaitch Says:

    Whether we have tried them or not has nothing to do with the fact that the claims made by the vendors are pseudoscientific gobbledygook. When someone does not even deign to blind me with science but instead opts to attempt to baffle me with bullshit I am entitled to believe that there is nothing of substance to their claims.

    I have been reading the abstracts linked to above. Cargo-cult science as Richard Feynmann used to say

  15. Philip Porter Says:

    Scenar works on the same principles as acupuncture, it treats the body as a whole. Holistic therapies don’t look at the treating the body in the same way as western medicines. Its going to save the health service Billions when we get going with this thing. Many of the practitioners using this are doctors. InterX uses the same technology, you can see their clinical trials here:

    http://www.nrg-unlimited.com/interx_clinical_trials.php

  16. jaycueaitch Says:

    That site recommends it as an addition to standard therapies, not replacing them. Did you actually read it? Further note that it seems to work best for things like pain relief ie treating symptoms not causes. Not holistic at all in other words.

  17. Philip Porter Says:

    It can be an addition, it can be a replacement, it depends what it is being used to treat.

    No, it resolves the symptom and with further treatment, depending on the ailment can resolve the cause of the problem in the first place

  18. jaycueaitch Says:

    Since you are evidently an expert on this, perhaps you ann explain what a bioresonance is and how it becomes stuck?

  19. Philip Porter Says:

    I’m not an expert, although I am constantly trying to improve my understanding. I am a student with scenar training body ISTA. Bioresonance isn’t a term I’ve ever used, there are many different terms for the same sort of thing.

    The device sticks at certain places when it is being moved over the skin, this explains it

    http://www.bioenergeticmedicine.org/Scenar/Scenar%20Theory/Practical%20advice%20on%20using%20the%20Scenar.htm

    I’m sure you will find lots more to be annoyed about in the manual, here:

    http://www.zephiloyd.com/images/user%20manual%20professional.pdf

  20. Joseph Says:

    People shouldn’t dismiss things that they know little about. The science makes sense to me but I have a degree in physiology and an interest in biophysics which perhaps helps my understanding. But theory is not the most important issue…
    What is more important is empirical research: That is, how does the technology perform in real life?
    And in my experience it has completely relieved me of severe back pain which I had endured most of my life. It has also helped almost everybody else I have treated with it – from ‘curing’ chronic problems to clearing acute bruises in just minutes! I have no financial interests in this technology. I have just become a very enthusiastic supporter after what these gizmos have done for me. It is healthy to be sceptical but the arrogance and cynicism displayed in some above posts is not helpful and may in-fact put people off what can be a very beneficial technology.

  21. Adrian Says:

    Take a look at the Macquarie University research, which proves the efficacy of the SCENAR/ENAR devices:

    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1963325

  22. jaycueaitch Says:

    Not even the authors claim that. They did find that those treated with ENAR showed somewhat greater neck pain reduction than those who did not and admit that since the sample size was so small, more research should be done before any such conclusions can be drawn.

    Only 30 started the trial and 6 of those dropped out.

    Furthermore it was not double-blinded, only single blinded.

  23. Stephen Carpenter Says:

    A friend of my fathers recently was “trained” on the scenar. So I decided to do some research. To all those who are so convinced about the scenar. Here is a challenge for you.

    The BIG red flags for me are:
    1. When I google skenar or scenar EVER SINGLE website talking about it is either selling them, or offering treatment, or just have scenar in the name. Surely a legitimate product would have its virtures extolled by someone other than the people trying to make money off it.

    2. There is no wikipedia entry. There are over 3 million entries, and scenar doesn’t have one. Why?

    3. The litterature that is there makes claims that don’t even make sense from a bilogical point of view like it “Activates the immune system at the DNA level”. Why do they sound like they are making shit up?

    Does anyone have even a single pointer to a single reputable source that doesn’t have a vested interest in convincing people that this works? A real double blinded study to rule out placebo effect? Anything?

    -Steve

  24. Philip Porter Says:

    No there are no double blind studies because that involves a lot of money, and the people with the money are the drug companies. Scenar therapists are small businesses without millions of dollars to throw around. It works according to the principles of accupuncture, which involve meridians etc. , which we expect to be proven by physics in the near future, as energy and matter are ways of describing the same thing.

    Next time you have a minor acute injury ask your dad’s friend to help you, it will clear the problem in half the time.

    Phil

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      The same tired old altie excuse. Since the things are being sold at about $1,000 each the manufacturers should have enough money to do the tests.

      You really should be careful using untested treatments. Look what happened to Roger Coghill – fines and costs totalling £8,000 because he didn’t bother doing tests on one of his supplements. Turned out it contained a toxic plant.

      Be a bit unfortunate if one of your patients was harmed by your untested treatments wouldn’t it?

  25. Philip Porter Says:

    It depends on how many they sell, it is still relatively unkown so I don’t think they sell many. RITMEDIC have only been manufacturing them for 8 years, I expect they are planning tests at some point. 2001 was the beginning of manufacturing in Europe you can’t expect it straight away. The Russian tests have no value in the west. The device hasn’t harmed anybody, only helped them, and according to the principles used correctly it can’t cause any long term damage, as long as you don’t have a pacemaker. This is more than can be said for the many supposedly “well tested” pharmaceuticals which damage people’s bodies and minds.

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      You don’t know that it will not do any long term damage because, as you say, they have only been manufactured since 2001. You cannot know that it will only help not harm if used accoeding to instructions because no tests have been done!

      And please stop trying to change the subject to Big Pharma. Their real and imagined sins have no bearing on the efficacy of scenar devices.

  26. Philip Porter Says:

    They have only been manufactured by RITMEDIC in The Netherlands since 2001, however they have been made in Russia since the 1980s, at that time loads of tests were done, and now it is highly regarded in Russia, which is why it used in hospitals there and the why the inventors were given the Order of Lenin. This was during the cold war period, and thus the test results have no medical weight over here. If you dont believe this that is your choice, I am just passing on the information given to me and other scenarists by well respected doctors. If you want further information from manufacturers you can contact RITMEDIC in The Netherlands or OKB RITM in Taganrog, Russia.

  27. jaycueaitch Says:

    How about some links to these tests? I’ve asked for this before but the links you’ve supplied have not supported your assertions.

  28. Philip Porter Says:

    Only the results are online

    http://www.scenar-revenko.ru/en/scenar/summary.htm

    this is the site of one of the inventors, the professor who taught me and many others

  29. jaycueaitch Says:

    So in other words, we can’t examine the way the “trials” were conducted. There’s no evidence of blinding, for example. Nor is there any indication of how long the treatment lasted. Most of the diseases listed are self limiting or episodic – if you wait long enough you wil see signs of recovery whatever treatment is given.

  30. Philip Porter Says:

    The studies were adequate for the Russian government at the time to allow more widespread use of the device. During the cold war, they would not have necessarily anticipated that the device would be used beyond the communist block, and that consequently their testing procedure would need to be scrutinised and criticised by a sceptical world 20 years later. I believe these relics are now in the Kremlin somewhere.

    New tests would be very useful and I am sure they will happen at some point.

  31. towarnyou Says:

    Only the results are online

    http://www.scenar-revenko.ru/en/scenar/summary.htm

    According to Mcafee this site breaches browser security and may insert a virus or trojan onto your computer.

  32. Pete Duquemin Says:

    To Jaycueaitch:

    Are you for real? Why don’t you get off your butt and JUST try the SCENAR? All you seem to like to do is waste time when you should try to be somewhat objective and see what you are arguing for or against.
    You do not understand exactly how your TV or computer works but that does not mean you do not use these things. So why is this so different?
    Does it cause so much cognitive dissonance that you can not take the chance that may change your way of thinking? Is your life so firmly entrenched in dogma that your ability to acknowledge new realities is completely impeded? You do not impress me at all with your argument. Bist du ein esel?

    • NoScam Says:

      Dear Pete Duquemin:

      may I tell you that SCENAR is neither used in russian hospitals, nor by russian astronauts. It has been patented as “Useful Thing”, not as medical equipment. Everybody can patent everything if he has money and SCENAR “inventors” seem to have plenty of it.

      • Brett Says:

        No Scam…do some research yourself because you are wrong :) It is used in some Russian Hospitals. It is also used in some Australian Hospitals under research at this moment. However you are correct. It is not officially used by cosmonauts.

  33. jaycueaitch Says:

    Since the manufacturers and enthusiasts have supplied no evidence that SCENAR works, I am unwilling to spend £1,000 on one. TV and computer salesmen do present evidence that their wares work.

    I may not impress you but I doubt your spiel about “new realities” is impressing anybody either.

    One last point. As we are not friends or family, if you were a German speaker you would know that your use of the second person singular is incorrect.

    You’ve learned something today.

    • NoScam Says:

      C’mon guys, all those nicknames belong to the same troll. Scenar is SCAM, point. The world is full of scammers trying to sell SCENAR, ATOX, GRANDER FILTERS, colloidal silver, HEDD, ADE… Well, some of them get fined or even jailed and I hope this happens to the “inventors” of SCENAR scam, too.

  34. skrael Says:

    OK – you want some independent corroboration?

    I arrived here looking for some unbiased information about Scenar, since we have now has a total of 8 scenar sessions from an accredited and reputable practitioner on our son, aged 6.

    This practitioner is an “expert” having done multiple levels of the scenar courses

    I was concerned from the beginning, but wanted to approach it with an open mind and just see what happens – to observe if there were any positive improvement.

    In my honest and unbiased opinion – it is a fraud.

    There have been NO results. Nothing. Only the practitioner making positive noises about how the numbers were improving greatly. When asked about why it was having no actual effect I got the response they he was still “detoxifying” and that I needed to get a few more sessions.

    Screw that. I’m not throwing good money after bad.

    Aside from possibly having a placebo effect on those who earnestly believe in it, it has no effect on those who have no opinion either way.

  35. NoScam Says:

    Philip Porter Says:

    >Was the practitioner using a Dens/Denas device?

    You mean that here http://www.denascorp.ru/ ?

    Well, as for that device http://www.denascorp.ru/ru/catalog/1/10/item_1230.html they claim the device gives pulses with a frequency of 77Hz. Impulses with that frequency will actually burn your skin between electrodes. Applying one electrode to your head and another to your leg will electrocute you.

    The reason, they still selling these devices may be:
    + Device do not make any frequency
    + Noone did try out this device

    Conclusion: BAD SCAM

    • Philip Porter Says:

      which is why I asked.

      this is not a device I have used, the signal is not true scenar, although it is cheaper than most, and has produced valuable results for some people.

      • NoScam Says:

        What do you mean by:

        “…has produced valuable results for some people”?

        A placebo pill can produce some valuable results, too. You mean scenar did better than placebo? Who tested it?

        I know, in some prisons the guards are using electric shocks to torture the prisoners and it is considered as TORTURE. Do you hate your body so much that you need to torture it with electroshocks? The scenar does “program” the body with “information”. Did you verify what “information”? What if the “information” is buggy and tells your body to buld cancer instead of “heal yourself”?

  36. Philip Porter Says:

    I only use RITMedic devices, so I think it would be unprofessional of me to discredit DENAS. Your other comments are crap so I will just ignore them.

    • NoScam Says:

      >I only use RITMedic devices, so I think it would be unprofessional of me to discredit DENAS.

      Ok, you are professional SCENAR therapist. You advocate SCENAR because you get money of it. Now I understand why you are so upset on my comments. Fortunately, I have some background in physics and medicine. Not much, but enough not to fall for this quackery.

  37. Philip Porter Says:

    yes you have the opinion of most sheeple who trust modern corrupt science and medicine. I can remove most acute pain within 10 minutes. I charge £20 an hour, pretty fair I recon.

    • NoScam Says:

      >yes you have the opinion of most sheeple who trust modern corrupt >science and medicine.
      That’s what they preach you. They try to discredit science and medicine because you shall buy their stuff instead of going to a doctor.

      >I can remove most acute pain within 10 minutes. I charge £20 an hour, >pretty fair I recon.

      You daze the patient’s nerves close to the lesion, but the pain will return. You cannot remove the cause for the pain.

      Some pills will remove the pain in less than 10 minutes and they cost less than £20 for a whole bunch.

  38. Philip Porter Says:

    >That’s what they preach you. They try to discredit science and medicine because you shall buy their stuff instead of going to a doctor.

    No, my opinions on that have come about through many years of research.

    >You daze the patient’s nerves close to the lesion, but the pain will return. You cannot remove the cause for the pain.

    No, it can remove the cause of the pain too, and sometimes within 10 mins. Often the patient’s problem never returns.

    If any of you sceptics are in Newcastle, I will prove it to you for free.

  39. NoScam Says:

    > No, my opinions on that have come about through many years of research.

    Why do you think so? Did you poll your patients and they told you their doctors are bad or corrupt? How did you research it?

    Sure, a human being seeking alternative medicine is not happy with his or her doctor. But they should try to find a better doctor instead of alternative medicine. Really good doctors are very rare, so some basic knowledge in medicine is a BIG ADVANTAGE. All these fraudsters seem to have no adequate medical education, but are very good at scamming people.

    >No, it can remove the cause of the pain too, and sometimes within 10 mins. Often the patient’s problem never returns.

    Ok, if you destroy the nerves the pain won’t return. But there are some medicines, which do much better and cost less.

    Scenar’s people also claim scenar would heal cancer, too. If you know what is cancer and how scenar works, you probably will never advocate scenar anymore.

  40. Philip Porter Says:

    >Why do you think so? Did you poll your patients and they told you their doctors are bad or corrupt? How did you research it?

    No, I haven’t polled any patients. What I am saying is that my opinions that science and medicine are corrupt in many respects, has come about through years of research. I believe that there is a covert eugenics plan in operation.

    >Sure, a human being seeking alternative medicine is not happy with his or her doctor. But they should try to find a better doctor instead of alternative medicine. Really good doctors are very rare, so some basic knowledge in medicine is a BIG ADVANTAGE. All these fraudsters seem to have no adequate medical education, but are very good at scamming people.

    Many scenar therapists are also doctors. In certain countries only doctors are allowed to practice it.

    Scenar’s people also claim scenar would heal cancer, too. If you know what is cancer and how scenar works, you probably will never advocate scenar anymore

    Cancer is a difficult area with scenar, as practitioners we are advised to stay away from the cancerous area. However it can be used in advanced stages of cancer to reduce pain, maybe that is what you read. Unless there are new developments, I would never say that it could heal cancer.

    Anything else?

    • Brett Says:

      Yeah Phillip … Pharmaceutical companies always tell the truth and all their products are safe and are not in any way harmful chemicals and are not pushed by Doctors! How dare you suggest such a thing!

  41. NoScam Says:

    >Cancer is a difficult area with scenar, as practitioners we are advised to stay away from the cancerous area. However it can be used in advanced stages of cancer to reduce pain, maybe that is what you read. Unless there are new developments, I would never say that it could heal cancer.

    Ok, then how about this http://www.scenar-therapy.com/publications/scenar_fair_part2/ ? “Cancer cells, by their very nature, are anaerobic (non-oxygenated).” LOL. Oxygene boosts the growth of cancer cells.

  42. Philip Porter Says:

    >Ok, then how about this http://www.scenar-therapy.com/publications/scenar_fair_part2/ ? “Cancer cells, by their very nature, are anaerobic (non-oxygenated).” LOL. Oxygene boosts the growth of cancer cells.

    Yes it uses COSMODIC in conjunction with ozone therapy, I have never used either, and I have no plans to, which is why I will not say that I can help heal anybody’s cancer with my scenar.

    • NoScam Says:

      >Yes it uses COSMODIC in conjunction with ozone therapy, I have never used either, and I have no plans to, which is why I will not say that I can help heal anybody’s cancer with my scenar.

      Citing http://scenar-cosmodic.com/ :

      “SCENAR is an electronic device that brings all physiological processes back to order.

      SCENAR technology restores body functioning to the level it was at before the disease. It stimulates recovery of the body using its potential as an organism in general.

      COSMODIC is a more advanced technology, which restores body functioning at the cell level. It restores body functioning using both general organism potential used in SCENAR technology plus cell potential at the genetically inherent level, which provides rejuvenation effects.”

      COSMODIC is more advanced as scenar, so COSMODIC is a SCENAR.
      For me it’s not important how do they call their stuff. What is important is that people who manufacture both devices tell complete nonsense, proving they do not have any medical education. I’m sorry for the doctors fallen for this quaks. Scenar is not for nothing on http://www.quackwatch.org/ .

  43. Philip Porter Says:

    No, it is just your opinion that it is nonsence. You have been indoctrinated into a cetain belief system and therefore can’t comprehend that what holistic medicine tells you is true.

    Doctors invented it and use it because it works. No doctors ever convert from holistic to orthodox practice. They are always orthodox then recognise the lies, and become holistic, never the other way.

    Scenar is on quackwatch for the same reason you have written about it on here. They are just more ignorant brainwashed people like you.

  44. NoScam Says:

    >No, it is just your opinion that it is nonsence. You have been indoctrinated into a cetain belief system and therefore can’t comprehend that what holistic medicine tells you is true.

    At least every good orthodox doctor can tell the cause of illness or pain. Hollistic doctor won’t tell you that. Hollistic doctors attempt only to treat the symptoms, not the cause.

    Look at this http://scenar-cosmodic.com/en/scenar-cosmodic-book.html
    they tell in “II. Methods of SCENAR-action for various disorders” SCENAR can be used in Oncology, too. But say nonsense about cancer. You said SCENAR cannot be used in Oncology.

  45. Philip Porter Says:

    >At least every good orthodox doctor can tell the cause of illness or pain.
    Hollistic doctor won’t tell you that. Hollistic doctors attempt only to treat the symptoms, not the cause.

    That is rubbish, holistic methods treat the whole body, the boy heals itself, ultimately healing the cause of the problem. Orthodox doctors treat the symptoms of problem with drugs, which often have dreadful side effects, which then require further treamtnet with more drugs, damaging the body’s natural ability to heal itself.

    >You said SCENAR cannot be used in Oncology.

    No, I said that I wouldn’t use it to treat cancer, I didn’t say it couldn’t be used in oncology.

  46. RICHARD LAIRD Says:

    As a Scenar user it is interesting to read all the negative comments from critics who: clearly have never used the device and/or have never experienced the daily horror of living with long term chronic pain.

    Yes, chronic pain sufferers are vulnerable to all sorts of scams which promise to end their pain including FDA approved medical solutions for pain management. As someone who has been and continues to be in chronic pain, (coccyx/tailbone)I have gone through the”approved” treatments at a cost of over $12K including;injections with cortisone,nerve ablation,pain pills,chriropractic, acupuncture, Rolfing massage, physical therapy and a small fortune in seating/cushions.

    And the result of all of this? No relief whatsoever, a total waste of time and money. Let’s hear it for the FDA approved solutions.

    On the other hand, the Scenar caused relief the very first time I used it and continues to each day. Permanent cure? Who cares! One day without pain is such a blessing I couldn’t care less if the device was made by Chinese farmers, it does things NONE of the established medical treatments don’t, namely offer actual relief.

    • NoScam Says:

      >On the other hand, the Scenar caused relief the very first time I used it and continues to each day. Permanent cure? Who cares! One day without pain is such a blessing I couldn’t care less if the device was made by Chinese farmers, it does things NONE of the established medical treatments don’t, namely offer actual relief.

      Ok, if you feel SCENAR works for you, that’s fine. The thread here is aiming at clearing up the matter with the bizarre claims of SCENAR inventors. Peoples considering a SCENAR device should know that there is no science behind SCENAR. SCENAR would NEVER work the way, THEY tell US.

      Everyone who buys SCENAR is going to pay thousands of dollars for a toy, which is only capable of making noise and flashing a few LEDs.

  47. Philip Porter Says:

    If something does not conform to current scientific thinking it does not mean there is no science behind it. Scenar works according to the principles of acupuncture. Could it simply not be that future science will be able to explain it more adequately? 97% of your DNA is considered junk by current science. This is obviously untrue and its true purpose has yet to be understood. So why assume that just because something has been invented which cannot be explained by western science, it must be fake. Physics could not explain how a bumble bee could fly until recently but that does not mean they never flew.

    • NoScam Says:

      >If something does not conform to current scientific thinking it does not mean there is no science behind it. Scenar works according to the principles of acupuncture.

      Ok. then you can buy a stun baton for 10$ and stun all these acupuncture regions. I bet you’ll have the same results.

      >Could it simply not be that future science will be able to explain it more adequately?

      I don’t think so. THEY already have given an explanation. Unfortunately, this explanations sounds stupid. They try to reason with scientific terms, but redefine these terms in such a way so that laymans simply do not understand and experts just laugh THEM off.

      >So why assume that just because something has been invented which cannot be explained by western science, it must be fake.

      Unfortunately, russian science cannot explain it either. SCENAR may be produced in Russia, but sold only to western countries. Russians don’t know about SCENAR, neither in hospitals nor private persons.

      > Physics could not explain how a bumble bee could fly until recently but that does not mean they never flew.

      This was a scientific joke from the past century. This was never meant seriously.

  48. Philip Porter Says:

    >Ok. then you can buy a stun baton for 10$ and stun all these acupuncture regions. I bet you’ll have the same results.

    You will lose a lot of money then.

    >I don’t think so. THEY already have given an explanation. Unfortunately, this explanations sounds stupid. They try to reason with scientific terms, but redefine these terms in such a way so that laymans simply do not understand and experts just laugh THEM off.

    The explanations sound stupid to people like you who restrict their scope of understanding reality by confining it to a little box. Anything outside the little box is wrong and laughable, because you need your reality to fit neatly into current scientific thinking otherwise it poses a threat to your feelings of security. You must therefore not explore the truth for yourself, but simply insist on the traditional rigid dogma in which your culture’s values are steeped.

    Experts in orthodox medicine may chose to laugh at them, because they have been trained to believe that all that is valid exists within this same little box, that you worship. These so-called experts backsides are often owned by extremely powerful drug companies with an agenda. Scenar is a threat because it works very well, with no side effects and makes no money for these companies. Therefore it must be scorned, ignored or ridiculed. If it proves to be too much of a threat it will be demonised further and banned. It is a war, and these companies represent the Global New World Order Dictatorship, and the scenar therapist represents the Libertarian. As you have been sold a pack of lies your entire life, you will not understand the politics of this war, and you will simply laugh, pity me, or attribiute these comments to the ramblings of a madman.

    >SCENAR may be produced in Russia, but sold only to western countries. Russians don’t know about SCENAR, neither in hospitals nor private persons.

    This is completely wrong, it is used throughout Russia and the old Eastern block. How you can blatantly lie with such ill judged confidence smacks of utter desperation.

    >This was a scientific joke from the past century. This was never meant seriously.

    So physics always knew how a bumble bee flew did it? So there was never a time when physics didn’t know how a bumble flew and then it was discovered?

    I shall rephrase

    At one point Physics could not explain how a bumble bee could fly, but that does not mean they never flew.

    • NoScam Says:

      >>Ok. then you can buy a stun baton for 10$ and stun all these acupuncture regions. I bet you’ll have the same results.

      >You will lose a lot of money then.
      No, I meant stun baton works in the same manner as Scenar.

      >The explanations sound stupid to people like you who restrict their scope of understanding reality by confining it to a little box. Anything outside the little box is wrong and laughable, because you need your reality to fit neatly into current scientific thinking otherwise it poses a threat to your feelings of security. You must therefore not explore the truth for yourself, but simply insist on the traditional rigid dogma in which your culture’s values are steeped.

      Yes, peoples should explore the nature and use gained information to make the life better instead of making dumb assumptions hoping their assumptions will become true some centuries later. Neither member of SCENAR developers is a recognized member of russian National Academy of Sciences.

      >>SCENAR may be produced in Russia, but sold only to western countries. Russians don’t know about SCENAR, neither in hospitals nor private persons.

      >This is completely wrong, it is used throughout Russia and the old Eastern block. How you can blatantly lie with such ill judged confidence smacks of utter desperation.

      So would you, please, tell me in which town and in which hospital (please no “holistic hospitals”, but normal mainstream hospitals) SCENAR is used to cure peoples.

      >So physics always knew how a bumble bee flew did it? So there was never a time when physics didn’t know how a bumble flew and then it was discovered?

      The point was. According to some wrong calculations, bumble bees could not fly. But nobody did deny the fact that bumble bees can fly.

  49. Philip Porter Says:

    >No, I meant stun baton works in the same manner as Scenar.

    If you are placing a bet you will still lose a lot of money.

    >Neither member of SCENAR developers is a recognized member of russian National Academy of Sciences.

    scenar will not fit in the parameters of accepted mainstream science. Russian National Academy of Sciences is mainstream.

    >So would you, please, tell me in which town and in which hospital (please no “holistic hospitals”, but normal mainstream hospitals) SCENAR is used to cure peoples.

    I can tell you in places where it was used. Krasnodar hospital and The Pirogov Central Institute of Traumatology and Orthopaedics (Moscow).
    However I cannot confirm that it still is. Normal mainstream hospitals are under the control of normal mainstream science. If you do not want cures for your long term health problems or if you want a new minor injury problem to last a longer than it has to, go to a mainstream doctor or hospital.

    Ideally orthodox and alternative medicine would work well togther however the power and control of this situation is in the hands of orthodox medicine, and they want to remain powerful, and they know they will lose a lot of money when even more of the public find out how beneficial alternative treatments are. Orthodox practices tow the line of the eugenics agenda, by keeping people doped up, sick and heading for an early grave, so they are not going to embrace it. They cave in to pressure by permitting acupuncture some minor success in the mainstream, but barring an overthrow of the freemasonic agenda of depopulation, those in control will always demonise natural healing, alternative medicine, organic food, and vitamins, whilst all the time actually embracing it themselves. The global elite who run the world all use alternative therapy for a long and healthy life, it is part of their sick joke.

    It may be currently used in a few orthodox Russian hospitals, but I don’t know, I shall ask Dr Revenko when I see him next. But it shouldn’t be a measure of its vaue to you, but it is, because you are septic slave, trapped within the matrix. I know energetic medicine and scenar is thriving in Russia and the old Eastern block, and that is all that matters.

    If you want proof for yourself, the only way is if you try it for yourself. I rent them out, I can lend you one for the deposit and postage only, no rental fee, I cannot say fairer than that can I?

    Are you genuinely interested in finding out for yourself, or are you only interested in insisting that you already know the truth?

  50. Raphael Says:

    Really interesting thread. (Before I continue writing I apologize for maybe not so good english writing, Im not a native speaker) I wonder though why there aren’t more people here defending SCENAR, telling their own positive results with the treatments, with good, precise, accurate data. I live in the North of Thailand and recentlly, through a MRI test on my left knee, I found I have a meniscus tear and the DR wants to do Arthroscopic Surgery on the knee. It was that the reason why I found this threat, as I read on another site that a man with a similar condition on his knee had treatments with SCENAR that did help his healing of the knee. It would be great to know more about the SCENAR and if it is really good or not, All the best

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      Seriously, it does not work. I examine some of the claims in this post. They do not stand up to scrutiny.

      • Philip Porter Says:

        Yes thats right, don’t attempt to reserve judgement until you find out for yourself, form an absolute opinion based on some comments that must be incorrect because they don’t fit in your boxed reality, and then spread that opinion as the truth.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        I’ve asked you for evidence that it works. All you’ve done is give a link to uncontrolled unblinded trials that prove nothing. I’ve covered this on another post as you well know.

      • Philip Porter Says:

        How many times do I have to hammer this info in your head before you get it?

        “I’ve asked you for evidence that it works. All you’ve done is give a link to uncontrolled unblinded trials that prove nothing. I’ve covered this on another post as you well know.”

        So What! Lack of clinical evidence does not prove that something does not work. All it shows is that there is a lack of clinical evidence. My evidence for it working is the results I and my colleagues have had in using it. Clinical evidence of its effectiveness is not compulsory for us to continue helping people with their health issues. We know it works, often the patients only have to try it for a few minutes to see its effectiveness. I will often take my device to parties and demonstrate it there, (remembering of course to establish first that there are no contraindications for those who use it). Your refusal to investigate further, ie. try it for yourself and reserve definite opinion until at least doing that, is your problem, and a symptom of your pigheadedness, and your opinion of it is based upon this closed mindset. Clinical evidence of its effectiveness will be obtained in the future when somebody has the money to do it. I will demonstrate this marvelous technology to anybody for free.

    • Nancy Vinal Says:

      I have a DiaDens Russian scenar that I have had for several years. Bottom line is, IT WORKS…. on everything I’ve tried it on… from toothache to stimulating the neurons of the human brain in the victims of Parkinson’s disease. It appears to be VERY beneficial in ALS as well.

      This is personal observation therefore it wouldn’t be acceptable by the FDA or some other federal agency. But it works for me and for the people that I have applied it to..
      There is a old saying: “There are none so blind as those who WON’T see”…. the scoffers will use the excuse that they don’t want to spend the money to try something that costs over $2.98 … because they already know it “won’t work” so they would be wasting their money.
      You can’t get by “that” kind of “reasoning”…. don’t waste your time.

      At any rate the fewer persons who know what the device can do, the longer it will be before the FDA or the AMA or the pharmacutical companies realize that people are using one of these “crazy Russian devices” and cutting into their monopoly of the MONEY.

  51. Philip Porter Says:

    this site is for “sceptics”, ie. those of predominantly negative disposition towards anything not accepted by the mainstream. You are best going elsewhere to find your answers, I will email you.

  52. jaycueaitch Says:

    This site is “for” anyone who has anything interesting to say. It is not limited to those of a particular view, otherwise your posts would not stay.

    What I and the more frequent commenters have in common is that health claims should be backed by evidence. Particularly when the person making the claim is making money from it.

    On that subject I object to this blog being used by people like you to increase their customer base, so I will be removing Raphael’s email from his post.

  53. Philip Porter Says:

    “This site is “for” anyone who has anything interesting to say. It is not limited to those of a particular view, otherwise your posts would not stay.”

    Well it is inot really is it, don’t pretend that it is aimed at those of neutral interest. It is for letting off steam and venting anger at woos.

    “What I and the more frequent commenters have in common is that health claims should be backed by evidence.”

    Evidence for you is having passed various test in reputable studies. Myself and others in my field do not buy into this sheeplike mentality and recognise the utter corruption in medical science, that is bent towards protecting and maintaining big pharmas stranglehold over medicine, whilst going out of its way demonise natural cures or poo poo them as placebo. Consequently evidence is not as cut and dry as you might like to believe. My evidence comes from the many happy patients it produces. Tests to prove it would be great, but it may be too much of a gamble as the financial risk is probably too high at present because the negative influence is too powerful.

    “On that subject I object to this blog being used by people like you to increase their customer base, so I will be removing Raphael’s email from his post.”

    I emailed him anyway, so there. It wont increase my mug base one jot, as there is no-one doing it in Thailand yet.

  54. jaycueaitch Says:

    How many times do I have to hammer this info in your head before you get it?

    “I’ve asked you for evidence that it works. All you’ve done is give a link to uncontrolled unblinded trials that prove nothing. I’ve covered this on another post as you well know.”

    So What! Lack of clinical evidence does not prove that something does not work.

    Trials were done. But they were done so badly as to guarantee no useful information could come from them. It would have cost no more to do them properly so the argument about lack of funds does not stand up.

    You bang on about the corruption of Big Pharma but can you imagine the outcry if they took your attitude to the production of new drugs :”We know it works so we don’t need evidence”.

    Anyway, do keep posting and exhibiting your double standards for all to see.

  55. Philip Porter Says:

    “Trials were done. But they were done so badly as to guarantee no useful information could come from them. It would have cost no more to do them properly so the argument about lack of funds does not stand up.”

    I don’t think you can say that for sure, is this the InterX trials of which you speak? even if they were proven, that wouldn’t legally prove scenar, as they are different devices.

    “You bang on about the corruption of Big Pharma but can you imagine the outcry if they took your attitude to the production of new drugs :”We know it works so we don’t need evidence”. ”

    That would be a valid point if it was not the case that scenar has barely any contraindications and has only neutral or positive long term effects, so is safe to use on most people, the same can not be said for untested drugs.

    • Nancy Vinal Says:

      When it comes down to the “new pharmacutical drugs”.. they do NOT work… at least not in any positive way. They pharamecutical companiest claimed that the “latest meds” were the 8th wonders of the unverse.. and 24 months later the attorneys around the country have THEIR advertisments replacing the “Purple Pill – Pharma Ads”, and they are begging the damaged victims to contact them so they can “get them compensated for the damage that those Purple Pills did to them~!
      Come on man… open your eyes.

  56. jaycueaitch Says:

    How do you know there’s no contraindications if you’ve not tested it?

    The trials I wrote about were the ones you linked to when I asked for evidence that your device works. If they were not relevent, why did you link to them? Trying to baffle with bullshit again?

    • Philip Porter Says:

      “How do you know there’s no contraindications if you’ve not tested it?

      The contraindications for scenar have been established for a long time, tests were done two decades ago in Russia. It does not need to go through a testing procedure to see if it is safe, it has already passed the safety tests. Any future tests would be valuable to prove what the device can actually do.

      “The trials I wrote about were the ones you linked to when I asked for evidence that your device works. If they were not relevent, why did you link to them? Trying to baffle with bullshit again?”

      It is not bullshit it is just complicated. Notice I used the word “legally”. Legally scenar and InterX are two different devices, however the InterX 5000 produces exactly the same waveform as the standard professional RITM model scenar and operates in the same way. So technically they can be considered to be the same.

  57. jaycueaitch Says:

    So if they’re the same device why did you say the tests were irrelevent when I pointed out how rubbish they were? You’re flailing around aren’t you? You can’t keep your story straight from one post to the next.

    How about a link to those safety tests you say were done in Russia?

    • Philip Porter Says:

      “So if they’re the same device why did you say the tests were irrelevent when I pointed out how rubbish they were? You’re flailing around aren’t you? You can’t keep your story straight from one post to the next.”

      because the InterX tests would not help scenar’s integrity on a legal level, only a technical level

      “How about a link to those safety tests you say were done in Russia?”

      well I don’t know where they are online, it is just something the doctors informed us of, but this manual states on page 5 “The device complies with the standards EN 60601-1 (GOST R 50267.0) and EN 60601-2-10 (GOST R 50267.10) for internally powered equipment, type BF, which classifies it as a safe device for personal use.”

      http://www.zephiloyd.com/files/Oper_Manual_1-NT_ver_01.pdf

  58. jaycueaitch Says:

    The standards to which you refer are tests of electrical safety ie that the device will not give unintended electric shocks. They are not tests to see if it is advisable to apply pulses of electricity to the nervous system, that is not their purpose.

    In other words, they are not evidence that there are no contraindications to the use of scenar type devices.

  59. Philip Porter Says:

    These are the standard contraindications for scenar, which we are taught

    http://www.scenartherapist.co.uk/Scenar-Practical-Advice/Scenar-Contra-Indications-Scenar-Therapist-UK.html

    I would add epilepsy too

    When developing the device in the 1970s the Russians decided upon the absolute contrainidcation of pacemakers, in case the scenar signal interfered with the pacemaker signal. I don’t think there is any proof of this decision online. The rest are chiefly for the safety of the practitoner in case of litigation as opposed to any negative effect. For example if a patient had an epeliptic fit soon after scenar therapy, the patient might decide to sue. As far as I am aware this has not happened, also it is not believed that scenar therapy can actually do this, I have been informed that positive results have been achieved with epileptics. But as it cannot be proven not to be the cause of a fit, it is best to avoid treating them. Best to be on the side of caution.

  60. habby Says:

    When Phillip Porter said -

    “I believe that there is a covert eugenics plan in operation.”

    there wasn’t much point in continuing reading his comments

  61. Zapper Says:

    The Scenar Works. And it works better than “Modern Medicine” in most cases for pain relief (permanent relief).

    My sympathies to Philip Porter.

    Trying to convince the followers of “Modern Medicine” which has been around for less than 300 years, the principles of a 3000 year old system of Chinese medicine or Ayurveda, is a difficult task.

    • NoScam Says:

      >Trying to convince the followers of “Modern Medicine” which has been around for less than 300 years, the principles of a 3000 year old system of Chinese medicine or Ayurveda, is a difficult task.

      Practitioners of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) have excessive training (often several years) before they are allowed to cure humans. But holistic doctor’s training takes only two weeks and after that they allowed to “cure” humans. You cannot say a TCM practitioner is like a holistic doctor.

      • Brett Says:

        Over 20 years in conventional western medicine I have met many GP’s with many years of training and experience…..but they are still dangerous quacks! Training alone does not make the measure of effectiveness.

  62. NoScam Says:

    To all proponents of holistic medicine:

    Please tell what is – in your opinion – the (only) true medicine and why do you think so.

    • Philip Porter Says:

      Why should there be only one? Health should be a mixture of holistic and orthodox. Orthodox more for serious accidents and emergencies, holistic, nutrition, minerals and vitamins more for long term health conditions.

      • NoScam Says:

        >Why should there be only one?
        I meant if one does have any disorder, whom he should consult first? Orthodox or holistic? Who makes a better diagnostic?

        >nutrition, minerals and vitamins more for long term health conditions.

        Oh, please tell how vitamins could help to maintain a healthy living? Do you know that Vitamin A and Vitamin E are said to cause cancer???

    • Philip Porter Says:

      <I meant if one does have any disorder, whom he should consult first?

      It depends what the disorder was, e.g. If you broke your leg: orthodox, if you have back pain: holistic

      <Oh, please tell how vitamins could help to maintain a healthy living?

      No, it is the subject of books, you wouldn't pay attention anyway.

      <Do you know that Vitamin A and Vitamin E are said to cause cancer???

      Vitamin E: yes the synthetic types, take naural ones ideally in the organic food. Vitamin A: no, just more government propaganda http://www.sawfnews.com/Lifestyle/64874.aspx

      • NoScam Says:

        >It depends what the disorder was, e.g. If you broke your leg: orthodox, if you have back pain: holistic

        I wouldn’t call a broken bone a disorder. But pain in the back could have various reasons. What diagnostics does a holistic doctor do to find out the cause of the pain? X-Ray, ultrasound? Or does he blindly make something hoping the patient won’t bother him again with his pain?

        Synthetical vitamins are made by pharmaceutical firms and they tell us to take their vitamins, because “the manhood” would otherwise die quickly. They also forge novel therapies for their useless drugs and feed holistic doctors with all that bullshit. And holistic doctors adopt this bullshit either because they believe that and/or for a huge profit.

        >Vitamin A: no, just more government propaganda
        Why government would do so? Every government would like its ciizens to be healthy and wealthy. If it tells vitamins are bad, it only wants the citizens to stay healthy. On TV I hear frequently: eat more vegetables, don’t eat fastfood, don’t take vitamin pills. So, I’m quite comfortable with this “propaganda”.

    • Philip Porter Says:

      Synthetical vitamins are made by pharmaceutical firms and they tell us to take their vitamins, because “the manhood” would otherwise die quickly. They also forge novel therapies for their useless drugs and feed holistic doctors with all that bullshit. And holistic doctors adopt this bullshit either because they believe that and/or for a huge profit.

      What are you on about? I am saying natural vitamins are much better than synthetic, and the vitamin A you were complaining about was synthetic.

      >Every government would like its citizens to be healthy and wealthy. If it tells vitamins are bad, it only wants the citizens to stay healthy. On TV I hear frequently: eat more vegetables, don’t eat fastfood, don’t take vitamin pills. So, I’m quite comfortable with this “propaganda”.

      Oh dear, you have a lot to learn. When I say government, I mean “the powers that be”, ie. the minority in high levels of government and the thousands of elite members of society who are above the level of government, ie. the wealthy government puppet masters, who are known to refer to certain people as “useless eaters”. These people are eugenicists, who pose as liberals but are actually fascists engaged in population reduction, e.g. Bill Gates. They don’t get scrutinised by the lamestream media because their buddies own the lamestream media.

      Here is how they posion food to reduce population

      Here is how they use vaccines to reduce population

      and don’t reply with paranoid nutter, or tin foil hatter type comments, it is all well backed with evidence.

    • Philip Porter Says:

      >What diagnostics does a holistic doctor do to find out the cause of the pain? X-Ray, ultrasound? Or does he blindly make something hoping the patient won’t bother him again with his pain?

      The holistic doctor questions the patient about their medical history, and about the specific problem as to how it arose, from that info, depending on the type of holistic medicine he uses, he tailors the treatment for that patients specfic problem

      >Synthetical vitamins are made by pharmaceutical firms and they tell us to take their vitamins, because “the manhood” would otherwise die quickly. They also forge novel therapies for their useless drugs and feed holistic doctors with all that bullshit. And holistic doctors adopt this bullshit either because they believe that and/or for a huge profit.

      What are you on about? I am saying natural vitamins are much better than synthetic, and the vitamin A you were complaining about was synthetic.

      >Every government would like its citizens to be healthy and wealthy. If it tells vitamins are bad, it only wants the citizens to stay healthy. On TV I hear frequently: eat more vegetables, don’t eat fastfood, don’t take vitamin pills. So, I’m quite comfortable with this “propaganda”.

      Oh dear, you have a lot to learn. When I say government, I mean “the powers that be”, ie. the minority in high levels of government and the thousands of elite members of society who are above the level of government, ie. the wealthy government puppet masters, who are known to refer to certain people as “useless eaters”. These people are eugenicists, who pose as liberals but are actually fascists engaged in population reduction, e.g. Bill Gates. They don’t get scrutinised by the lamestream media because their buddies own the lamestream media.

      Here is how they posion food to reduce population

      Here is how they use vaccines to reduce population

      and don’t reply with paranoid nutter, or tin foil hatter type comments, it is all well backed with evidence.

  63. First trial Says:

    Interesting reading. First time experience, today my Wife tried this to treat a Asthma and find out some other possible infections. The practioner used a Rayocomp device. Reading a bit more about the device from Rayocomps webpage and Paul Scmidts book, it looks like there is no scientific explanation why or how it could work. A lot of of references to scientific terms that really did not make much sense!! The list of bacterias with frequencies with 0.05 differences is a vbit of a joke. What if we find some new bacterias in the future that need to go in there between some other frequecies, when the frquency is already taken and the list is already full? These things kind of takes the bottom out of this otherwise nice story about the Rayocomp.
    Then in practice what I saw and the practioner told was that the machine sends out a wave length after another and the doctor holds a device that is supposed to start rotating in circles or sideways depending on the resonance it finds with the vibrations in the body. This could still be scientific, but then It looses credibility when I see she holds it with her hand and it is totally independent from the machine after all. Sometimes she shakes the hand a bit more , sometimes less.
    I have a feeling two different practitioners testing the same person would find totally conflicting results and infections. It is not the machine that do the analysis, it is really the practitioner by how she shakes her hand.
    Then at the end she “charged” some sugarpills with a frequency to cure some of the bacterias found and then she was told to eat these during the coming weeks as we will be traveling and not be around to get to the machine and get the real treatment again soon enough.

    We would ofcourse like it to work, but I am afraid that this is just another great idea on how to make money on ill people. For example, Frequency charged sugar pills cost 20 Euros. Every treatment is 60 euros, and you need a lot of treatments.
    People are still going a lot to this practitioner. She is a nice person and good listener. I guess it has a lot of Placebo affect and Placebo works well on alot of people. Nothing wrong with that. Whatever works is fine. Maybe it works on my wife as well?

    But as for this thread, where you discuss scientific evidence of SCenar and similar devices like the Rayocomp, I must agree with No scam and Jaycueaich, there is really no scientific story behind this. If it helps, thru placebo or nice practioners that is another story.

  64. Philip Porter Says:

    my comment was stuck on “awaiting moderation” probably due to the links, so I have removed them:

    >What diagnostics does a holistic doctor do to find out the cause of the pain? X-Ray, ultrasound? Or does he blindly make something hoping the patient won’t bother him again with his pain?

    The holistic doctor questions the patient about their medical history, and about the specific problem as to how it arose, from that info, depending on the type of holistic medicine he uses, he tailors the treatment for that patients specfic problem

    >Synthetical vitamins are made by pharmaceutical firms and they tell us to take their vitamins, because “the manhood” would otherwise die quickly. They also forge novel therapies for their useless drugs and feed holistic doctors with all that bullshit. And holistic doctors adopt this bullshit either because they believe that and/or for a huge profit.

    What are you on about? I am saying natural vitamins are much better than synthetic, and the vitamin A you were complaining about was synthetic.

    >Every government would like its citizens to be healthy and wealthy. If it tells vitamins are bad, it only wants the citizens to stay healthy. On TV I hear frequently: eat more vegetables, don’t eat fastfood, don’t take vitamin pills. So, I’m quite comfortable with this “propaganda”.

    Oh dear, you have a lot to learn. When I say government, I mean “the powers that be”, ie. the minority in high levels of government and the thousands of elite members of society who are above the level of government, ie. the wealthy government puppet masters, who are known to refer to certain people as “useless eaters”. These people are eugenicists, who pose as liberals but are actually fascists engaged in population reduction, e.g. Bill Gates. They don’t get scrutinised by the lamestream media because their buddies own the lamestream media.

    Here is how they posion food to reduce population
    go to youtube type in “Food: The Ultimate Secret Exposed”

    Here is how they use vaccines to reduce population
    go to youtube type “Vaccine Death Coverup Implodes Worldwide”

    and don’t reply with paranoid nutter, or tin foil hatter type comments, it is all well backed with evidence.

  65. NoScam Says:

    >>What diagnostics does a holistic doctor do to find out the cause of the pain? X-Ray, ultrasound? Or does he blindly make something hoping the patient won’t bother him again with his pain?

    >The holistic doctor questions the patient about their medical history, and about the specific problem as to how it arose, from that info, depending on the type of holistic medicine he uses, he tailors the treatment for that patients specfic problem

    That is pretty similar to what an orthodox doctor will do, but usually an orthodox doctor studies medicine five or more years and then will have an internship for a few years before he gets a license to cure people.

    And a holistic doctor doesn’t study medicine and only needs to complete that two-week course without excessive internship before he get’s a license to “cure” people.

    So, do you believe a holistic doctor can make a good diagnosis without having an adequate education as orthodox doctors do have? Also without that expensive laboratory that every orthodox doctor does have?

    I think the holistic medicine is pretty USELESS for ill people and is only about SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.

    • Philip Porter Says:

      what is this two weeks course that you speak of? is this something you have just made up?

      the holistic doctors I know have been through conventional studies and converted from orthodox medicine to holistic further down the line.

      in any case, if there are bogus holistic doctors out there, that is a statement about the system that allows such goings on, and is not a comment about the medicine they chose to use.

    • Brett Says:

      Philip, It is not these people who will make a difference in the SCENAR World. It no longer concerns me that people do not believe in SCENAR. Hell, some people believe in so many things that are not yet evidenced. Some people will never believe even when the clinical trials are completed. So what! We know and see the benefits everyday. I don’t care if the SCENAR results are the product of Placebo or of the direct influence of the spirit of some long dead witchdoctor. They could even be as described by the doctors and scientists in Russia over the past 20 years. The facts are that people come to see me and they go away happy and better. I take their money and we are both happy. What is the problem? I give a money back guarantee of satisfaction. I go to a doctor he takes my money I get no guarantee. End of story for me.

  66. art Says:

    I have used the Denas . It does work for pain . You are also correct there is no sound science to support most of the claims . The tens machine is similar and seems to be more widely accepted by medical science.

  67. elizabeth Says:

    I am an acupuncturist and was offered a scenar treatment by another acupuncturist.I accepted out of politeness as I am on the extreme end of scepticism about this stuff.Instant conversion~I was so impressed by the result I actually bought a machine despite not having much money.i.e. I don’t just buy every faddy thing that piques my interest.My device is the ps705 cosmodic.I use it almost exclusively on myself and my 90year old mother and I regard it as the best investment I have ever made in my own health and if it makes the difference between enabling my mother to stay in her own home or being bunged in a nursing home then it’s worth every penny.I can’t say I understand the manual~it reads like it was translated from the russian by a computer.I am not intending to set up as a scenar therapist, just a grateful home user.

  68. Shaun Morton Says:

    It is not unusual for a device of some sort to be sold to people who are experts in their respective fields only to discover that ultimately it does not and cannot work.

    I’m not saying that SCENAR does not work, I really don’t know if it does or if does not, but please can someone test it properly to international standards so that we know one way or another?

    If it passes, the inventor and practitioners will make a fortune, if it doesn’t then we can just put this to bed!

    An example of a device that does not work that has made a fortune for the ‘inventor’ and ‘salesmen’ is the “bomb detector” that was recently exposed. You can read more about this on the attached link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8471187.stm and then make your minds up about the dangers of promoting and hawking untrialled and untested devices.

    Regards,

    • NoScam Says:

      >I’m not saying that SCENAR does not work, I really don’t know if it does or if does not, but please can someone test it properly to international standards so that we know one way or another?

      I don’t know if there is an international standard for scam. Do you know?

      >An example of a device that does not work that has made a fortune for the ‘inventor’ and ‘salesmen’ is the “bomb detector” that was recently exposed.

      No, that wasn’t a fortune – he gave money to the Iraqi officials. That’s all.
      That’s just plain criminal. He is no longer in the jail… Why? Because he has money and, maybe, still plenty of it.

      Money, that is something what other crooks do not have. So let forget them, let the evolution do its job.

      • Brett Says:

        There are international standards …. RITM SCENAR has the certificates to show that SCENAR conforms to available standards in Europe, USA and Australia as well as many other countries. It really would be hard to fool them all for the past 30 years….

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        Certificates to show that they are electrically safe, yes. None to show that they have the effects you claim.

  69. Michael Tait Says:

    I have read with interest the debate concerning the pros & cons of the Scenar as I have with many other devices & therapies from the days of Pasteur & Koch to modern day energy medicine, because the subject is interesting to me having spent over 50 years in the practice of medicine. I have seen the dreadful errors of many ‘modern’ medications and the enlightening but totally wrong results of pharmaceutically backed research projects. I have recently had the Scenar demonstrated to me by a practitioner who had nothing to gain – that was a GREAT start and I have been researching the literature concerning the device for some time. I have decided to use the device and keep accurate (and honest) records of the results because I am highly impressed by what I am seeing and hearing at a grass roots level. If we could all record our results over the next 12 months then I believe we can present a united front for or against the Scenar. Our results should speak louder than our words. I would be happy to be the collector of your records over the next 12 months. Michael

  70. carlo Says:

    Troops,
    My mother started using a walking stick after her knee ostio arthritis got worse overnight.
    She went to the doctor and physio who did 10 mins of ultrasound and she left in exactly the same immobile condition she went in.
    I was sceptical when I took her to a scenar practioner but after an hour session she left the office without the walking stick with an 40% pain reduction. After a second treatment a week later she has only a minor limp. Her knee is still not pain free but based on the amount of cartilage in the xray its not suprising. She is mobile again. I also got her on fish oil and glucosamine tablets but that still doesn’t explain the immediate pain reduction. To be honest, I still can’t believe the immediate effect it had.

    • carlo Says:

      I am results driven. The session cost me $50 which was $7 less than the physio which had zero positive effect.
      My recommendation is if it works then I continue to pursue it.
      Therefore I dismiss the barrage of critic from individuals whose only experience with the device is reading the toilet wall also known as the internet.

  71. Patti Says:

    I was recently at a visceral anatomy class where one of my fellow classmates had one of these devices. She brought it to class and worked on my frozen shoulder, as well as on a very deep, restrictive abdominal scar on another classmate. I was stunned. I have tried everything to “fix” my shoulder with no success, and I saw a very tightrope-y like C-section scar melt like butter and feel like regular skin. My shoulder got about 60 percent ROM and the pain diminished to about 30% from 100. Nothing had done that up to then.

    I have NO commercial interest in this product. I don’t sell them and don’t own one, but what I saw and experienced with my own eyes and my own body has made me a believer. I am thinking of buying one myself. Maybe the reviewer needs to have a session when they are experiencing debilitating pain where nothing the medical community has to offer can help ease it. Then and only then will I take anything they say about this being a scam seriously.

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      My shoulder got better through excercise. Anacdata is a game anyone can play.

      Asfor the melting scar tissue, I’ll believe that when I see it. Not even the manufacturers make that claim.

      • Brett Says:

        Scepticism is also a game anyone can play. I will admit that the choice of words used by some people could be a little more objective and seeing is not always a basis for belief… but…. the medically supervised clinical trials of SCENAR are showing that although it is not a “magic wand” there are more improved outcomes when SCENAR is used as a monotherapy or when combined with other established treatments. It does not matter whether you are convinced or not…. many are … and I enjoy seeing their smiles of relief … and no I don’t care if it is a placebo effect…. it is an effect … and that is what matters most … outcomes.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        Again, if scenar devices are having the wonderful effects you claim, you’ll be able to supply some evidence.

  72. Beatrix Says:

    Why does it cost so much? The production cannot be so expensive! Maybe to make as much money as possible untill somebody will seriously stop selling this really expensive toy.

  73. Joss Says:

    I once saw a news report claiming that aloe vera had “no benefical effect on the skin” because there was no peer reviewed science to make that claim. Yet most people know from experience that aloe vera is very beneficial for sunburn. Science is always behind reality because it has to prove what already exists. Thats one example of why I value experiece over theory. “jaycueaitch” speaks so much crap it’s not funny. He is just a very ignorant loud-mouth pessimist. My reccomendation: Try Scenar for yourself before you judge it based on someones uninformed opinion.

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      There’s a difference between “news reports” and scientific evidence. Why not provide a link?

      The rest of your rant is so incoherent and abusive it’s not worth the bother of refuting. I thought I would just leave it there as an example of the reasoning ability of the average scenar enthusiast.

  74. wobbie43 Says:

    Well!!! Very interesting reading. I have two bulging discs C5/6 and C6/7 with pressure on root nerve pins and needles, pain and numbness down left arm. I saw neurosurgeon two days ago and he suggests operation. He will have to operate through the front of my throat. So besides the usual risks of surgury there is the added risks of paralysis, voice box damage, damage to oesophegus with swallowing problems and carotid artery damage. Hmmmmmm decisions not really partial to that. Anyway in the last week and a half l have had 3 SCENAR treatments and my pain numbness and pins and needles have deminished when nothing else has done anything. It is still there maybe 40-60% of what it was but l think it may have been better except l travelled by car 10 hours each way to see the surgeon so l aggrevated it. I will be having another treatment tomorrow and will let you no how l go. I plan to have another MRI to compare the differences. I am a registered Nurse and was sceptical and still will not be convinced until l am healed l think, so we will see…….

  75. wobbie43 Says:

    jaycueaitch if you were referring to me you are wrong. I live in Central QLD l drive a truck in mining and am ex nurse. I have just had a treatment today and l feel amazing. I can tell you l actually have only a slight ache in my neck 1 out of 10 pain level and NO pins and needles and that is the first time since the injury. SCENAR is amazing so far and l was a sceptic. Time will tell but l am pretty well converted. I don’t really care if you believe me or not but if you are so passionately against it l would suggest you try it and you will then know for sure …..or not l don’t really care.

  76. renrah Says:

    Methinks” jaycueaitch” is one of the trolls that big Pharma and the FDA pay to dispute anything they can’t control or profit from

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      I find it interesting that the CAM brigade can think of no other reason for holding an opinion other than financial gain. Says more about themselves than it does about their critics.

      • Ken Says:

        One side always for and another against continues :-)
        I feel both sides are missing the point here. The Scenar device actually works, but not the way the the people that sell it claims.
        As a technical device it is a pure joke, it has absolutely nothing scientific or technical about it that could even let it affect the human being.
        BUT, it works and it works only on people that truly want’s to believe in it and I will explain why.
        There are lots of similar “Technical SCAMS” which works on this principle. The best one I have come across is this box with two batteries and a simple resistor that you put under the bed at night. That’s enough to make you better if you only believe in it. I know a guy that sells these for 500 USD each and he claims that it have cured lots of peopleand I believe him. Cost only about 5 USD to make.
        Some people prefer professional healers, people that are considered to be able to get into your body & mind and cure you.

        The classic is the placebo sugar pills that actually works as good as real medicine in lots of cases. As sleeping pills, sugar pills has even shown superior to real sleeping pills.

        Yoga and meditation is another way to cue your self. Actually my favorite, because it is the closest thing you can get to your own mind, which this whole thing is all about.
        Praying to God (which ever one of them you believe in) is another one.
        In summary, The human being needs something to believe in.
        If you have hope and faith, the body can cure itself even from Cancer.
        What we are all striving for in life is to find something to beleive in that will keep up our hope, faith and positive attitude to life and we all have our personal preferences in what we like to and could believe in.
        This Scenar machine probably has its place and I know personally people that have been improved (maybe not fully cured) by it, but please don’t try to explain it with some “hokus-pokus” technical stuff, because it is a just another type of non-technical black box. Unfortunately a very expensive one, I guess same ratio between manufacturing and selling cost as the Battery-resistor box.

        PS: I have seen Scenar treatment (Rayocomp), read the manual and seen and been explained how it is supposed to work so I know what I am talking about. Non of it makes any logical nor technical sense other than what I described earlier. By the way, my friend did not get cured by it, because I made her NOTto believe in it (sorry about that), but meditation and exercise finally did the job for her.

      • Phil Says:

        is a TENS machine a “technical scam” too?

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        According to this the jury’s still out on their effectiveness.

        Though the manufacturers only make claims for pain relief, not curing disease.

      • Phil Says:

        I was addressing Ken.

        You are suggesting the scenar manufacturers claim it cures diease, where do they say this?

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        here for a start:

        Evidence based trials show that, with the right stimuli, the human body is able to allocate more internal healing resources to speed up recovery from chronic pains, chronic diseases and injuries. RITM Scenar technology and RITM treatment protocols have been designed to facilitates this process and bring faster results than most other therapies.

      • Phil Says:

        The word “cure” implies 100% absolute healing. The words “healing” and “recovery” mean improvement which is ongoing, and not necessarily finished. The inclusion of a measurement such as 25% or 50% or 100% implies to the reader, the degree to which improvement has been experienced. If they were to say 100% recovered or 100% healed, this would be equivalent to using the word “cured”. They have not used the word “cure” on the link you sent me, and they do not say 100% recovered or 100% healed, so you are incorrect. Try again

      • Ken Says:

        Phil, lets not get stuck on details. My point was that it does not cure, heal, recover, help (call it whatever you want) unless a person BELIEVES in it. Mind over matter is what makes it work! Because there is absolutely no technical reasons why the Raycom device would work.
        I think you guys selling these device just have to accept those facts. There is still room for a “device” like this and it can cure, heal, recover, help and make the mind stronger of some people because there are lots of people out there that need something extra (a device, a healer, a calling) to their mind stronger so it can fight the disease/problems they might have. Don’t take me wrong you are actually doing something good for society. You are giving people “a vehicle” to get their mind into positive thinking. Positive thinking can cure cancer. This is what Modern scientist should spend a lot more time on. The Power is within you!

      • Phil Says:

        Your point is merely an illfounded opinion and does not represent the people who try it. Plenty do not necessarily believe it, but are willing to give it a try to relieve a pain, and then they find it works for them. It interacts at a neurological level, as it can make you very drousy or alert, but it is not true that you have to voluntarily think that it will work, for it to work. Scenar practitioners also use it on animals and babies who are not susceptible to the placebo effect, and they have had great results.

      • Ken Says:

        Phil, I have clearly a different opinion. Let me further explain why a Scenar device (and other Technical SCAMS) might work for some people.
        If I would tell you that a box which a 1.5 V Battery and a 2000 Ohm resistor will send out an electrical field which will stimulate you at a neurological level to heal you. You would probably not believe me!
        If I charge you 500 USD for this same black box , immediately you would get interested. You would reason that If it is that expensive, it must be something special inside!
        If I further make a nicer box around and equip it with some gauges and knobs , you would be almost convinced. Then if I finally charge you 5000 USD for it (instead of 500 ) you are absolutely sold.
        Because if you then try it , and you have paid so much, it must be something really special inside,and then you actually wan’t it so much to work that it actually works. The power of imagination!

        I assume your statement that “babies and animals have been healed by the Scenar device is only a” ill-founded opinion” without any scientific proof other than the story of their parents that want it so much to work (all the money and time they spent) that they actually “spread good vibes” around their baby to such extent that the baby might even improve. BUT, only from the vibes of their parents! By the way, babies and animals are actually susceptible to the placebo through their parents reactions and how they “pad” their babies after they have given them something (a sugar pill) or done something (put them through a Scenar device) to them that is supposed to have a healing effect. Take an example when a kid has hit his finger with a hammer and you blow on the hurting finger and suddenly the pain reduces. Just a another humans touch and thought reduced the pain.

      • Phil Says:

        how do you know to trust “scientific proof”, when scientific proof itself is only as trustworthy as the integrity of the funders of the research. Their is much corruption in science with regards to peer reviews, they can simply bend the results in the direction of the agenda of the institution with enough money and peer pressure, simply look into AGW, for an example of the utter lies propagated there in the name of science.

        It is OK to be scepticle, but to think that eveything about the human body can be explained through existing mainstream science is sheeplike. How do you know that essential information is not missing when there is so much about reality that is being hidden from us, we only perceive a tiny percentage of the EM spectrum afterall. How do you know that the remaining medical information is not already present within alternative medicine, and much real scientific advancement could be done in that direction, were it not for an organised campaign by the powers that be, to demonise alternative medicine, in order so that they maintain their control and share prices.

        Body parts have memory, and those memories are transferred during organ transplants, this has been demonstrated over and over, when aspects of the personality of the donor appear in the receiver. This is because of the holographic principle which ancient medicine has always known about, but modern western medicine tries to debunk or ignore. This is because the western science is not complete, and thus flawed. This is because of institutionalised compartmentalisation of medicine and the arrogance it propagates down the generations. The end result are educated idiot doctors who, by refusing to look outside their imposed reality, harm those who think they are all knowing. Both sets of people have been deliberately conditioned by the system, for the purpose of the transference of wealth to the funders of the corrupt science.

        All said and done, you do not know that scenar would not work on you, it is because you have bought into mainstream science propaganda that makes you stick rigidly to your belief system.

        If you had the opportunity to try the device on yourself for accute painful problem, would you refuse, because you already knew it wouldn’t work? If you refuse, then in my eyes you are nothing but a mental prisoner.

      • Ken Says:

        Now you are talking Phil, I agree with your statements……. until the last sentences where you seem to have got me totally wrong and again start refering to the Scenar as something that the human body would need.
        QUOTE! “Both sets of people have been deliberately conditioned by the system, for the purpose of the transference of wealth to the funders of the corrupt science.” UNQUOTE

        I agree to this statement as well but I would like to add that there is a “third set of people” that try to make themself whealthy by marketing and selling “technical scams” like the Scenar devices and brain washing poor unwell people to think that they need these “gimmicks” to cure themselves.

        I again claim, the human body don’t need the majority of the main stream medicine nor “Scenar devices”, because the body can cure itself if you just get your mind to it. So Phil, I am absolutely not a mental prisoner, but actually the opposite.

  77. wobbie43 Says:

    Whatever!!! Don’t really care what anyone thinks l am healed and will have an MRI to prove it. Who cares if it’s mind over matter, if that’s something that works why aren’t we researching that one wonders?????

  78. Nancy Says:

    The Scenar devices that I have work to aleviate pain in almost 100% of the cases that I have applied them to…. and repeated treatment accelerates healing of damaged tissues …..
    This is over 7 years… and so the bottom line is: RESULTS….
    ..
    That is WITHOUT all the high falutin’ seminars and high priced units…….. these folks have a corner on the unscholarly US market… and they are over-charging for information and for the devices.

    US people are NOT knowledgeable about anything other than what the doctors tell them.. which isn’t very much. They are so brainwashed that it is criminal!!!

    • Ken Says:

      Nancy, you are absolutely right, this is what I tried to explain to Phil in my earlier comment. There are too many people from both Main stream medicine and “Scenar world” that try to make a fortune out of poor unwell people.
      In my opinion it is so unethical, when the bottom line is that the only thing people need is a mental will to be healthy. I admit Scenar might be a way to help strenghten the mind of some people so I do not doubt that you have been able to help a lot of people. Thats great! Hopefully you are not mis-using the trust people have in you and overcharge them like some do.

      I had a friend that went to the Scenar treatment for while, and then stopped. I asked him why. This is what he said(I think it explains everything=: Yeah I got better alright, but it was so expensive, so I found another guy, a healer that just by using his hands have given me far better progress for only half the cost. He only charges 40 USD per time while the Sceenar treatment costed 80 USD per time, plus all the “Electro magnetized pill” this Scenar guy wanted me to buy as well. It almost bankrupted me to go the Sceenar treatment so I had to stop”.

  79. Andysnat Says:

    Hey Ken, have you had any success curing anybody at all with your mind?

    Didn’t think so

    • Nancy Says:

      Andy Snat….
      After all, the MAIN STREAM research now tells us that the human body is completely controled by the mind, and by electrical pulses and signals generated by the neurons in the ‘CPU’ brain …… (Quantum Physics)..
      …… therefore, if you want to be scarcastic and shoot arrows at people who are more “up to speed” on what “science” is now exposing…. you should do everything that you can to insure that you do NOT become physically ill.
      Because, if you do…. you will be at the mercy of the main stream medical “PROfesssion”….. and you will have to have a shopping bag to carry all the prescription pills bottles that you are told you must have.

  80. Andysnat Says:

    My Dear Nancy,

    Please could you point me to the bit in quantum physics where it says that the body is completely controlled by the mind. I must have missed it.

    Thank you.

    • Brett Says:

      er …. the brain actually does control the whole body …. duh!

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        And your point is?

      • Brett Says:

        perhaps human body systems don’t always follow the laws of quantum physics? It is accepted medical opinion that the central nervous system, including what is considered in layman’s terms to be “the mind”, does “control” the body. I am confused. Are you disputing this on the basis of quantum physics? I am certainly not well educated in quantum physics. Perhaps you could enlighten me just a little?

  81. Ken Says:

    Andysnat, your sarcastic comments are not worth commenting, but just of curiosity, what would you do if you are diagnosed with cancer?
    Would you only rely on chemotherapy given the odds it have today or would you be interesting to try something else?
    There are a handful of medical disorders that main stream medicine has not been able to explain, understand nor find a cure for like Chronic fatigue syndrome recent increases in allergies, lactose intolerance etc. and on the other hand there are disorders that main stream medicine has explained as “mental problems” like burnout and depression.
    So even main stream medicine has accepted that ” the mind” is the key to a lot of medical disorders.
    We are start seeing more and more main stream certified doctors taking a more holistic view accepting the body’s self healing capabilities. I am hopeful we will someday combine the best from both worlds. But I don’t think “Sceenar devices” would ever be part of this, but rather more straight forward “mind strengthening” exercises!

    • Andysnat Says:

      I have got cancer as it happens. See my blog.

      I had chemo, very successfully, about five years ago. Thing is, my variety of cancer, a type of Leukeamia, is never cured, and it is coming back again.

      I couldn’t resist answering despite being months late.

      I would certainly be interested in anything besides chemo that would have a demonstrable benefit for my health. Aside from obvious sensible things to do like eat healthily, exercise, everything in moderation etc, the only options available to me are chemo and/or bone marrow transplant.

      At the moment, chemo is by far my best available choice, with transplant a far second. This may of course change, but I can’t see that happening in the short term.

      • Phil Says:

        for cancer, try miracle mineral supplement, which costs about $20, apricot seeds, hemp oil, or baking soda

        http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=208873

      • Andysnat Says:

        Sometimes it is far more satisfying to state that some people on the internetz are batshit insane, and Phil here, and David Icke are obviously two of them.

        Do you believe pigs can fly as well Phil?

      • Nancy Says:

        Andy Snat is indeed an nasty “snat”… whatever that is.

        For his ‘elite holier than thou’ information… the protocols listed WORK…
        And how would I know that ?… Because I see them work.. people told to go home and die.. 3 months maxium life expectancy….. still alive with a good quality of life, functional and pain free ……. AFTER 2 TO 3 YEARS……………
        .
        Who does Andy work for? “The System”???
        Perhaps is Andy a TROLL.. paid to post by the PTB (govt. powers that be)?????

      • Andysnat Says:

        I would really like the pond scum who promote quack medicine to be forced, when they develop a serious terminal illness, to use only quack treatments.

        The justice would be Darwinian

      • Phil Says:

        If you bothered to look at the link you would see it had nothing to do with David Icke himself, it was a forum post where there were some useful links. I thought you might prefer not to die of cancer or chemo. Looks like you want the system to take all your money and kill you. If there were cheap cures for cancer, do you really think that the cancer industry would inform the world or cover it up, and get you to keep taking the expensive cancer drugs, and asking for more money to find a cure, whilst the eugenicists are putting cancer causing agents in the food, water and medicine? Kids are dying of cancer in massive numbers nowadays, but no-one is asking why the several thousand percent increase. Just do a fun run and give us your money

      • Andysnat Says:

        Thank goodness for the NHS. Phil, the cost of my treatment doesn’t have any bearing on my choices. I live in a country where my choice is basically decided by the best available treatment, so all the quackery where there is no evidence to show any benefits to the patient is not normally considered a sensible option.

        Your suggestions, Phil, fall into the you must be joking, there isn’t a scrap of evidence that supports this nutjob treatment category.

        I cannot believe that in this day and age, people still believe in the kind of magical cures offered by quacks and charlatans.

      • Phil Says:

        the evidence is in all the people it has helped, you shouldn’t need anything more than that

      • Andysnat Says:

        What people? Show me?

        It should be easy to find good evidence if what you say is true.

        I’ve looked, and all there is is drivel and stories, plus advertising put out by quacks.

        You Alt-Med apologists ought to be made to have Alt-Med treatments when you get really ill. It would improve the species no end.

      • Phil Says:

        Drivel and stories? So real stories of people getting better then? It is your attitude that is the problem. I have never been seriously ill because I take vitamins, minerals, and rely on alt medicine for minor health problems. Doctors kill hundreds of thousands of people a year with the various poisons they promote. You are so brainwashed by the system, it is tragic

      • Andysnat Says:

        Phil,

        Can you tell the difference between anecdote and evidence?

        If you can’t, then I’m afraid there isn’t any point in continuing with this discussion. You don’t have the basic necessary understanding of reality, your education was very poor.

        Carry on believing in pixie dust and other magical things, because reality doesn’t seem to have levered its way into your thick skull.

      • Phil Says:

        I had no reason to believe they were lying, I spread the info to friends and relatives, when they were sick they tried it themselves and it worked, proving that they weren’t lying. So where is your evidence that they are lying. Go on explain where Rick Simson’s “run from the cure ” or G Edward Griffin’s “a world without cancer” is wrong

      • Andysnat Says:

        I asked a rather simple question Phil, could you do me the courtesy of answering?

        “Do you know the difference between anecdote and evidence?”

        It isn’t a hard question.

      • Phil Says:

        So you are asking about medical tests, the results of which can easily be bent in whatever direction the funder of the tests requires, for a desired outcome, which goes by the name of evidence, and if there is a difference between that and details of personal experiences. Yes there is a difference. However that definition of evidence, which I believe is the one you ignorantly adhere to, isn’t one I have much faith in.

      • Andysnat Says:

        Now Phil, do you UNDERSTAND the difference between anecdote and evidence.

        I’m afraid the correct answer for you is NO. Pity.

      • Phil Says:

        Your reply completely failed.

        Now explain where Rick Simson’s “run from the cure ” or G Edward Griffin’s “a world without cancer” is wrong.

        could you do me the courtesy of answering?

      • Andysnat Says:

        Never heard of them. Can I assume that they are anecdotal?

      • Phil Says:

        Well so much for your interest in establishing the truth. They are well known films in alternative cancer treatment, one beng 35 years old. You have obviously done no worthwhile research into hemp oil or laetrile despite your previous claim that you have looked.

      • Andysnat Says:

        I’m not really interested in old movies, I’m more interested in evidence based research showing treatments for illness that have demonstrable effectiveness. Just saying something cures cancer doesn’t make it so. You have to produce evidence. verifiable repeatable evidence.

        There is no evidence for your quackery. Open your eyes.

      • Phil Says:

        What if the system doesn’t want the evidence out there, because they are not interested in curing cancer using cheap natural products which they cannot patent, only in treating it using expensive drugs to maximise profits for shareholders.

      • Andysnat Says:

        I shall repeat, there is no evidence for quackery. Stop being willfully ignorant. There are no miracle cures. I wish there were.

      • Phil Says:

        What sort of answer is that? An answer from someone who is desperately grasping at straws, in order to stay inside the controlled paradigm of their phoney reality. Are you saying that cover ups by the authorities do not exist? This is where you call me a tin foil hat wearer as a way of compartmentalising me to fit in your narrow view of the world. Or maybe if you just say to yourself, its all quackery, and there are no miracle cures over and over again, you will believe your naive institutional cocksucking. Hmm I think you passed that stage a long time ago. Try reading some books about the history of the cancer industry and the cancer act 1939. Perhaps not, it might give you uncomfortable truths. Maybe because you have cancer and have bought the authorities lies for this long you cannot face the truth, so your robotised programmed response is the result of your denial. Either way you are an uninformed idiot, who feels the needs to stay in their comfort zone to cope.

      • Andysnat Says:

        Phil, you are a gigantic tosspot. I shall not bother with your fantasies any further.

      • Phil Says:

        Being well informed is what passes for stupidity to a docile sheep

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        If the evidence exists, why don’t you put it out there?

      • Phil Says:

        It is already out there! Why do you even need to ask? I can send you endless links which you will ignore. You employ the same mentality as those who think 9/11 was organised by some guys in a cave. There is too much evidence! Open your fucking eyes

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        So if it’s out there, then it’s not being suppressed is it? Try and keep your story straight – or have you fried your brain by zapping yourself too often?

      • Phil Says:

        No Dummy! It is out there in the alternative media, but is supressed in the mainstream media, because the mainstream is controlled by the global elite cabal, resulting in bainwashed followers who willing sacrifice their souls to the system, even when it is killing them. You adamantly refuse to research in depth because the controlled media and education system has already dictated to you your opinion of it years ago. They supress and ridicule the truth, and hype their phoney reality and hide their lies

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        I looked at some health claims for scenar devices here.

        They didn’t amount to much. Have you got anything better?

      • Phil Says:

        We were talking about cancer!

        Re scenar:

        try it yourself, that is the best way to prove its effectiveness. Until then, don’t talk bad about things you dont understand

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        I said better. You know, data. Not youtube videos.

      • Phil Says:

        As the youtube clip was from mainstream Australian news I thought that might have been useful to you. No I dont know of any more data, that is not to say there isn’t any, but it is not something I look for, I just use the device. You see there is no major body like with pharma companies that puts out studies and reports, and test results. The companies just make the devices and practitoners use them and our patients are very happy.

        One thing that is evidence surely is the lack of negative feedback from scenar patients, if it was a scam the net would be littered with negative reports, it isn’t.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        Nancy, which government department pays people to post on the internet?

        And some evidence to back up your medical claims would be nice.

  82. doomrock Says:

    Hi Ken! How do you measure the “strength” of your mind?

    • Ken Says:

      Doomrock, not sure what your point is and why you would even measure that?

      • doomrock Says:

        You were talking about “mind strengthening” exercises. How do you know if they have worked? What is the unit of measurement of mind strength? What is mind strength?

      • Ken Says:

        “Mind strengthening” would be things that make your own mind capable of focusing on the things important in life and get you into positive thinking (Instead of negative destructive thoughts). This positiveness or hope, gives you energy to fight any illness. For example being in the state of depression is probably when your mind is at its lowest, you don’t see any hope or future in anything. At this point you are extremely vulnerable to any illness. There are examples of when a old couple that have lived together and being very dependent on each-other , not having much anything else to live for , not any hobbies other friends etc. and one of them dies, it doesn’t take long before the partner, perfectly well at the moment, develops an ilness and dies as well. It has usually been explained with depression due to no willingness to live , no happiness , no “strenght of mind”, no inner peace, nothing to believe in and the body gives up.
        But I don’t think the strength of the mind is really anything you can measure mathematically. For example how do you measure how happy you are or how sad you are, it is all relative, but still the foundation of a healthy life.

      • doomrock Says:

        I know that you often do hear of the survivor dying soon after their spouse has died but how often does this actually happen? You say that it can happen to somebody that is perfectly well. Do you have a case study that we can have a look at please?

        What percentage of surviving spouses die and what percentage go on living for perhaps many years, perhaps even remarrying? Have their been any studies?

        I have a friend with HIV who, extraordinarily, spends a lot of time laughing and having a good time even though he is often suffering considerably. He obviously also has times when he is very down, understandably, because he does seem to be slowly dying. If he just bucked his ideas up would he get better? Do you have any mind strengthening exercises that you could recommend for him to do. I do hate to see him in so much pain.

  83. Ken Says:

    Forgot the mention what could be considered “Mind strengthening exercises”, it all depends on the person what works but it could be for example Meditation, Yoga+meditation, Praying to Good, going to a healer, reading a good book that makes you connect with your inner mind (Check out for example Eckhart Tolle) , eating pills/medicine that you are convinced will help you with the specific illness you have, spending time with really good friends that make you feel good, even normal exercise (running, skiing) , Getting a Sceenar or any other “nice looking blackbox with lights and gauges” treatment as long as it is done by a really nice person that seems like she/he really care about you and you believe in it:-)
    As an Engineer I can’t believe in something like the Sceenar, specially after reading the manual and seeing how it is used and how it is totally disconnected from anything we call technology (=Technical scam) , so I have to stick to the other means listed.
    Point is there is something for each of us, you just have to find what you believe in that will make your mind think that it can keep you healthy (or if you are ill, to cure you).
    This ofcourse Subject to that you do not have a straight forward ilnesses where main stream medicine has shown to work well and then thats what should be used. But today there are so many strange ilnesses that there seem to be no main stream medicine cure for. Then we need something else I have described!

  84. Deflectig Criticism 2 – Ad Hom Attacks « Letting Off Steam Says:

    [...] brigade is to accuse their critics of being shills for Big Pharma. For example ‘renrah’ here says “Methinks jaycueaitch is one of the trolls that big Pharma and the FDA pay to dispute [...]

  85. Deflecting Criticism 2 – Ad Hom Attacks « Letting Off Steam Says:

    [...] brigade is to accuse their critics of being shills for Big Pharma. For example ‘renrah’ here says “Methinks jaycueaitch is one of the trolls that big Pharma and the FDA pay to dispute [...]

  86. Kerry Seaton-Smith Says:

    Jaycueaitch, shame on your narrow minded outlook. The day your debilitating pain is relieved by scenar therapy, you will still find something negative to say and be looking for the catch!

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      My post addresses the pseudoscientific nonsense trotted out by scenar maufacturers in an attempt to support their claims that it is some sort of universal cure-all.

      • Brett Says:

        wow…. pseudoscientific …. more than 5 scientists, countless medical institutions and universities continually develop SCENAR technology. But as you say jaycueaitch … the world really is flat…. prove to me that it is not….

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        You’ll be able to supply some evidence that it works, then, won’t you?

      • Brett Says:

        Yes, it is published and available for those of basic Google skills to read and refute….. but as you do not appear to have the requisite qualifications to refute the evidence provided by scientists and medical practitioners, your voice is but a whisper. Over 6000 doctors in Europe use SCENAR, so I also value their opinions above yours. Far from taking their opinions as fact on face value I have used SCENAR as a therapist for over 3 years and what I have seen convinces me that outcomes are real and my patients are happy. So to me and my patients that is all that matters. SCENAR is not 100% effective. It is not a magic wand. It does however help some people who have tried many other methods that have failed.
        My clinical experiences with SCENAR match the Russian data so I have no reason to dispute it’s accuracy. So maybe if you could give me some evidence that SCENAR is a sham / scam then I would have a more balanced view? Or do you just have the empty repetitive rhetoric of a sceptic without cause? I have no evidence that the world is either flat or roughly spherical. It matters not to me. I do not wish to circumnavigate the planet…if we do indeed live on a planet….OMG…. maybe we are all just figments of my imagination…. now look what you have started….

      • Brett Says:

        and as further note… I use a RITM SCENAR original device that has the 30 years of continuous scientific research and development. Other manufacturers of counterfeit and new devices calling themselves SCENAR, ENAR, COSMODIC DIADENS, DOVE etc. may be scams. They do make some claims that I would not consider accurate so maybe that is what you are seeing. I can see how you would be confused.

  87. wobbie43 Says:

    Don’t waste your time Brett

  88. wobbie43 Says:

    I have a scenar I am level two trained and it has saved me from an operation. I have also seen amazing miracles I would call them because I am RN 30 years experience and have never seen this in main stream. So believe it or not doesn’t matter to me

  89. Nancy Says:

    Response to question about authenticity of “Internet TROLLS”… and reaffirmation that Andy Snat IS ONE.
    ***************************************************************

    http://thisbluemarble.com/showthread.php?t=29361

    Internet trolls, also known as “paid posters” or “paid bloggers,” are increasingly being employed by private corporations as well, often for marketing purposes. In fact, it is a rapidly growing industry.

    Trolls use a wide variety of strategies, some of which are unique to the internet, here are just a few:

    1) Make outrageous comments designed to distract or frustrate: An Alinsky tactic used to make people emotional, although less effective because of the impersonal nature of the web.

    2) Pose as a supporter of the truth, then make comments that discredit the movement: We have seen this even on our own forums — trolls pose as supporters of the Liberty Movement, then post long, incoherent diatribes so as to appear either racist or insane. Here is a live example of this tactic in use on Yahoo! Answers.

    The key to this tactic is to make references to common Liberty Movement arguments while at the same time babbling nonsense, so as to make those otherwise valid arguments seem ludicrous by association.

    In extreme cases, these “Trojan Horse Trolls” have been known to make posts which incite violence — a technique obviously intended to solidify the false assertions of the notorious MIAC report and other ADL/SPLC publications which purport that constitutionalists should be feared as potential domestic terrorists.

    3) Dominate Discussions: Trolls often interject themselves into productive web discussions in order to throw them off course and frustrate the people involved.

    4) Prewritten Responses: Many trolls are supplied with a list or database with pre-planned talking points designed as generalized and deceptive responses to honest arguments. 9/11 “debunker” trolls are notorious for this.

    5) False Association: This works hand in hand with item #2, by invoking the stereotypes established by the “Trojan Horse Troll.”

    For example: calling those against the Federal Reserve “conspiracy theorists” or “lunatics”. Deliberately associating anti-globalist movements with big foot or alien enthusiasts, because of the inherent negative connotations. Using false associations to provoke biases and dissuade people from examining the evidence objectively.

    6) False Moderation: Pretending to be the “voice of reason” in an argument with obvious and defined sides in an attempt to move people away from what is clearly true into a “grey area” where the truth becomes “relative.”

    7) Straw Man Arguments: A very common technique. The troll will accuse his opposition of subscribing to a certain point of view, even if he does not, and then attacks that point of view. Or, the troll will put words in the mouth of his opposition, and then rebut those specific words. For example: “9/11 truthers say that no planes hit the WTC towers, and that it was all just computer animation. What are they, crazy?”

    Sometimes, these strategies are used by average people with serious personality issues. However, if you see someone using these tactics often, or using many of them at the same time, you may be dealing with a paid internet troll.

    .
    Quote

    For almost five years, I was a paid Internet troll. Yes, I admit.

    But first let me state that I never performed my job here on ATS, though I believe I have occasionally seen a handful on here who were using a script similar to what I was assigned.

    I cannot and will not name names, but after an internship at a firm with government and political party (Republican) contracts, I was offered the position of “Online Communications Associate” at another company by someone from the original firm for which I interned. My contract completed one year ago, and I have since moved on.

    Utilizing six artificial personas, I was active in social networks and bulletin boards. But since I came to love and respect this site, as I stated, I never performed my functions here. Each week, I and presumably several others, were provided with information to use in our online postings. At first the information was comprised of fully conceived scripts, but as I became more and more experienced, it eventually became simple bullet or talking points.

    At first I needed to provide links to my postings, but when the company name changed (never knew the real names of any people there), that requirement stopped.

    The pay wasn’t very good, but since I was working from my apartment, I suppose it wasn’t bad and I was able to do several other writing assignments on the side.

    AMA

    • Andysnat Says:

      tl;dr

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      Interesting. You claim to have been paid to troll. Who by?

      We either believe this claim or we don’t. If we do, then we’ve got to wonder if you’re being paid to post now – which by your own logic would make your comment untrustworthy. If we don’t, then we believe your comments untrustworthy. Whatever the truth of your claim, you have admitted that nobody can believe a word you say.

  90. A.B. Says:

    Doubtful the person who wrote that Scenar Therapy doesn’t make any sense and is quackery…HAS NO CLUE AND NO EXPERIENCE WITH IT. I have been a Holistic Physician for almost 20 years and incorporated the Scenar into my practice about 2 years ago. “Amazing results”….not with just a few cases but with 80% of my patients. I have treated many different problems with the Scenar…from Musculoskeletal, Digestive, Migraines, Chronic/Acute pain, Depression, Anxiety(anything that has to do with imbalances in the CNS), side effects from Chemotherapy and meds, Neuropathy, Post surgical swelling and pain, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc…..The results speak for themselves!! MANY of my patients have purchased their own units because they were so amazed by the results. This includes the Plastic Surgeon and family medicine MD I work with too! I would advise the person to educate yourself and perhaps experience the therapy BEFORE you write your opinions. There is an ENORMOUS amount of research with SPECIFIC cases…..but regardless..results speak for themselves!!

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      I’ve looked at the research which the manufacturers and their shills tout as proof. It amounts to didley-squat as I have shown. If you have something better, please provide a link.

      • Phil Says:

        Have a little faith in humanity rather than obsessing over mainstream science. Just because there is not sufficient scientific data does not mean it does not work. Your complete lack of interest in trying it for yourself, whilst dismissing the therapy based on lack of scientific data is proof that you are arrogant and closed minded. We know it works, you do not, you just assume it is a scam because of your obedience to the religion of mainstream science, which is completely corrupted anyway. Doctors kill over 200,000 people a year.

        If you were around before they isolated vitamin C and recognised the lack of that as the cause of scurvy, with your mentality you would have died because althought there was plenty of evidence in people getting better by eating the right food, there was no scientific data to prove it.

      • Andysnat Says:

        What you do is fraudulent Phil.

        Stop deceiving people, ripping them off and do some honest work. How can you live with yourself you nasty quack.

      • Phil Says:

        Wrong again, numbers not plucked out of thin air

        http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=deaths-from-avoidable-medical-error-2009-08-10

        It is an opinion based on ignorance, and it is incorrect. I CAN PROVE YOU WRONG. But you wont try it because you are not interested in knowing the truth. You are only interested in parrotting your ignorance.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        Truly impressive collection of logical fallacies, numbers plucked from the air and out-right nonsense there. Well done Mr Porter, Scenar Salesman,

      • Phil Says:

        Wrong again, numbers not plucked out of thin air

        http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=deaths-from-avoidable-medical-error-2009-08-10

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        Even if the figures are correct, and I haven’t had time to examine the methodology, it hardly proves that your scenar devices work does it? Classic whataboutery there Mr Scenar Salesman.

      • Phil Says:

        so what, that was not the point of your attack.

        There is more evidence that they work than they dont. Happy customers are the evidence. Show me all the unhappy scenar customers then.

        I can point to many unhappy or dead customers of supposedly “proven to work” Big Pharma treatments

  91. Brett Says:

    You must agree that most medical science is still theory that has been modified many times. So it isn’t really an exact science at all is it? After 20 plus years in conventional western medicine, and yes having been trained with your scientific theories of how the body works I still know that here is a place for SCENAR alongside accepted medical practice. How can I live with myself? A lot better now that I am not dealing with patients suffering the failings of back surgery and other accepted treatments of medical quackery of which you so lovingly adopt. I am now dealing with patients who get solutions to their failed chronic pain management regimes and go away happy with a much improved lifestyle free from the pain they once had. Your constantly wheeled out science insists these patients seek psychiatric help because the pain is “in their head”. Now there is medical science at it’s best for you.
    “Can’t solve your problem so off to the psychiatrist with you then”.That my friend is quackery! TENS is the forerunner to SCENAR. TENS is used in many pain management regimes. SCENAR has evolved from the well accepted medical science in the field of electrotherapy. TENS stimulates nerve fibres to release neuropeptides and endorphins. SCENAR stimulates more nerve fibres to release more neuropeptides and more endorphins. Simple as that. You don’t need a medical degree to use a TENS machine. You also don’t need a medical degree to use a SCENAR. I do not get 100 percent success with SCENAR. I do get results where other methods have failed. That is why I use SCENAR and can very easily live with myself.

    • Andysnat Says:

      What you do is immoral and fraudulent, have you no shame, no conscience?

      I believe that you charlatans are just in it for the money you can get out of your victims.

      • Phil Says:

        show us the victims. Please provide links to all the complaining people. You cant, can you Andyshit ?

      • Andysnat Says:

        Why are you calling me names? Did I call you names?

      • Phil Says:

        You called me nasty. Now answer the question

      • Brett Says:

        Andy….. I treat my patients for free…I do not sell devices…..I make not one cent profit from SCENAR therapy … I just love seeing the look on their faces when they get back mobility and function after years of being told there is no hope for them by mainstream scientists who need 10 years of research and falsified/skewed pharmaceutical data. So calling me immoral and fraudulent is actually offensive. I have never insulted you. Why do you need to resort to offensive comments to justify your case?

      • Andysnat Says:

        @Brett You call them patients, I call them victims.

        You are treating your victims with something that has not been shown to be effective at treating them. It is not a therapy, it is a con trick. The only effect that could possibly be working is the placebo effect.

        You are a con-man, no better than the snake oil salesmen of the wild west. The alleged fact that you don’t charge your victims doesn’t make your con game any better. You have the morals and probably the intelligence of a snake to even consider treating real people with real conditions with your con game.

        What is worse is that you may well have paid a lot of money to another scammer for your machine, thus revealing yourself to be a total fool in any case.

        You, and people like you, are like a shit stain on the underpants of humanity.

      • Todd Says:

        While we’ve got some real idiots in here. I find Scenar works real well and does no harm, if you have a problem that it’s your own problem

  92. Andysnat Says:

    If you want to see victims, by the way, its easy, just look at your accounts, the bit where it records the payments made to you.

    • Phil Says:

      Give me lInks to people complaining, and stop avoiding having to do some research

      • Andysnat Says:

        I’m complaining. You are conning people out of money for a “treatment” that doesn’t work.

        You are a conman, a quack.

      • Nancy Says:

        Andy…. you are one nasty piece of work!… REALLY aggressive and really low down.
        For you to presume that anybody who uses a scenar unit is “conning other people out of money” is a first class stupid presumption..
        …… I keep reading what you write and usually just roll my eyes and pass it by… and say to myself “Oh well, another brainwashed zombie who eats real people because his mind has decayed…… the world is full of them”.

        So, just so the readers will know that you are a LIAR… and an evangelical CON-man.. and a bully without a brain….. I will relate my personal experience.
        I purchased a scenar unit for my own family, specifically for spinal issues and back pain. It worked for me, and now for over 5 years I have treated all kinds of folks, my neighbors, my friends, little children… back pain, neck pain, severe bruising, ……
        The success rate is about 70% positive… and I HAVE YET TO CHARGE ANYBODY A BLOODY DIME~!

        You must be one low down skunk yourself to believe that everybody else in the world is a criminal, a con man, a charlatan…… some are of course, but I don’t know that there are ANY on this forum… I am reading postings from some very decent folk… and YOU are NOT one of them.

  93. Phil Says:

    Your complaint is invalid, you have not tried it,

    give me links to people complaining who say they have tried it

  94. Anthony Says:

    Phil, here’s one from personal experience recently.

    My elderly Mother has undergone 2 weeks of Scenar therapy (which include visits to the clinic and self therapy with a hired machine at home) to try and relieve the pain of Nuralgia. No pain relief at all was achieved. The clinic of course said she must keep going for “up to nine weeks” but it then becomes a VERY expensive (and profitable for them) episode and we have discontinued the treatment.

    We went into the treatments with an open mind, my Mother not knowing anything about the conjecture into its effectiveness. So we certainly tried it and now I must agree with the naysayers on this blog. The explanations given as to what is taking place just sound like something from a science fiction story which very few people surely could understand. (Classic sales technique used by all manner of sales folk)

    Anyone on here that is involved in this industry certainly has NO CREDABILITY in trying to convince us all that it works. Placebo effect can be the only benefit of this “developed for Cosmonauts” treatment.

    Scenar therapy is a classic case of “if it sounds too good to be true………”

  95. Phil Says:

    I do apologise, I just get sick of the unjust attacks on this thread. No tone was insinuated. Please tell me which clinic was used and which make of device was used?

  96. chuck Says:

    I have a DENAS machine and have recently put up a website to educate interested persons in the history and results. I link to all the major brands and offer the DENAS for sale with a massive margin of 15%. I offer on line training and a 30 day money back guarantee less shipping. I can assure you I neither expect to make a fortune selling these machines or treating people on a fee basis. I do not really care if readers buy a machine from me or the other reputable builders. I DO care that people become aware of these systems and read for themselves about the capabilities and results achieved with them. We have used in the house and with relatives who have had rapid, significant improvement to long term ailments and other traumas. I myself have treated an athletic injury and chronic elbow problem with excellent results.

    I researched electromedicine and keyed into these systems because of the large body of research I was able to dredge up that was performed in the former USSR. Of course these studies where done at the behest of the authorities who paid for the development of the technology. Which is how it is done in the capitalist USA to satisfy the FDA. Which begs the question why would a Russian company pony up hundreds of thousands of dollars to gain FDA approval when the rest of the world will accept their Russian national authorizations that the system is safe and effective for use? Do you really think the Russians care about selling a few thousand systems into a market beholden to big medicine?

    It is interesting to note that on the well known, paid shill site quackwatch, there is no detail or file on SCENAR. Bottom line, the owner of this site cares not to understand the capabilities of these systems and the best result would be for the participants that agree with him and the blog to slowly fade away.

    If you are trying to get a grip on the reality of these systems, troll youtube for comments from athletes that have experience with the systems. In most every instance, you will see a person who was on the verge of retiring because of injury until they somehow became aware of these systems, took a treatment or two and where well on the way to recovery. When the injury was being treated, they were skeptical and looking for ANY relief/recovery. When they were recovered, THEN they might have become involved in spreading the word.

    Cheers and to the owner of this blog and your supporters, you have fought a fine battle trying to suppress this reality but do your self a favor and get yourself or your loved ones treated next time you have a health crisis. You will be glad you did.

  97. Todd Says:

    I am indeed such an athlete. I have had back problems for years and when my trigger point masseuse had a Scenar/Cosmodic device I had nothing to lose so I tried it.

    I am truly flabbergasted. After every other modality under the sun has failed to cure me completely (although some were very helpful), both standard and alternative, this device (Scenar/Cosmodic) has helped so dramatically in such a short period of time I am getting at least a home unit (Cosmodic only), if not professional (slides between both modalities) unit for myself.

    I can’t say I’ll reach 100% cured but I’ve got the problem on the run. I have no need for studies. I tried it, it works- THANK YOU GOD.

    Maybe someday soon I can un-retire. I’m getting close.

  98. alcaponejunior Says:

    Jay, you have amazing patience. How do you do it? Do you run a duck farm or something? So you’re used to the quacking noices? BTW, nice takedown of another pile of pseudoscientific nonsense.

    • Brett Says:

      al capone…. yep …. name says it all…. trust your opinion much? Nope.

    • jaycueaitch Says:

      I think if I was starting a blog now about alt.med I’d call it The Duck Farm!

      • Todd Says:

        What’s funny is the term quack comes from the old days of dentistry when dentists would use quicksilver a.k.a. “quacksilber” in people’s fillings. The the term quackery was used on such an outrageous practice. People knew then that this substance was toxic and should not be put in people’s mouths. Ironically, the quacks seem to have won out as Mercury a.k.a. Quicksilver is still put in peoples teeth today. Only recently have people realize how bad this idea is and begun to switch to white plastics.

        The irony is that people use the term quack to refer to a dubious alternative practice when in reality it’s the mainstream practice which has its roots in quackery.

        Every time someone dies in the hospital due to negligence through medication and or surgery and or infection, just remember scenar causes none of that and seems to work for many many people so while we don’t all understand the science we only know That it’s helping and not hurting.

  99. alcaponejunior Says:

    Nice strawman Todd. What does dental work have to do with scenar bioresonance again? Nothing. How does your derail support your argument that scenar works? It doesn’t. Does the possible origins of a word make any difference in this discussion? Nope.

    • Phil Says:

      The term “quack” is a little psychological trick the braindead repeaters have absorbed into their lexicon, they use to shut down debate, see also “discredited”.

      • alcaponejunior Says:

        And this has to do with scenar bioresonance how? Do you care to address any of the direct criticisms posed by Jay in this blog, or just argue pointlessly with more strawmen?

        I am not the one who has made extraordinary claims here. The burden of proof is not on me, it’s on those (such as yourself) who claim scenar bioresonance works and is based on plausible principles of physics. Here’s a clue: it’s not.

        The proposed mechanisms of action of scenar bioresonance are completely implausible and unbelievable by anyone with even half a college degree in the most basic sciences. It’s clearly bullshit, but if you don’t want to engage because you’re making too much money off the gullible or “worried well,” then please just say so. We will then have a better understanding of why we’re wasting time debating the word “quack.”

      • Phil Says:

        Responses have already been made many times, you just don’t like the replies, because you made your mind up a long time ago

        I suppose you also think the proposed mechanisms of action of accupuncture are completely implausible too. Well, scenar works in the same way

        Science has not finished understanding how the body works. It is not our fault if science and college education is corrupted by the elite institutions that fund it, and that you are an ignorant product of that corruption.

        Are you interested in trying scenar yourself to see it in action to see if it does work? Of course not, you don’t want to be shown to be wrong? I will give my time for free to any doubter.

      • Todd Says:

        I’ll say this, I will agree that the claims are inappropriate. As for more parables involved with healing and no modality whether effective or ineffective ultimately is a QR in my mind. The only real cure is cleansing the body of all foreign toxins and parasites, but the immune system still needs to be able to function. So in that way I would agree that the Scenar websites are misleading.

        What irritates me though, is that in these blogs, critics offer no data of their own, no personal experience, Yet they draw conclusions and make assertions using terms like quacks while telling scientific methods that are constantly abused by the medical industry and cause many people harm in an attempt to make billions of dollars. Western medical healthcare is an abomination in so many ways and as much as I like the concept of a double-blind study, what I see in the real world that has been supposedly created by this message is a fraud. It of course is not devoid of usese but considering the lifestyle of eating crap food taking drugs and having surgery as an answer for health – I couldn’t be much more critical.

        For those that struggle to believe in energy medications, I understand because there have been so many imperfect attempts at such devices. But the problem with drawing conclusions without any experience is eventually you’re going to be wrong. I highly recommend trying a Scenar device especially the originals and not the knockoffs

        Don’t worry I didn’t type any of this it was all dictated

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        I agree that you should n’t draw conclusions withoput evidence. Yet you seem quite happy with scenar salelspeople concluding that their devices work without evidence. Why is that?

      • Todd Says:

        Didn’t I just say that I thought that it was inappropriate for thoe claims to be made? What about that comment do you not understand? I don’t think that it’s okay at all. i just think the devices are very helpful.

      • jaycueaitch Says:

        And I wonder if Phil is interested in producing any evidence that they work. Nothing he has produced so far stands up.

      • Phil Says:

        You’re like a broken record. The level of evidence you require is not necessarily the same that other people require. Reproducing results in patients is enough for many people. If you have pain and your friend recommends this device because it has helped him, that is often enough for people. I supsect you want it to be subjected to strict clinical tests which people do not have the money for. However I am sure at some point they will be subjected to these tests and will prove effective. It will still work the same way whether it goes through these tests or not.

  100. zlatosrebro Says:

    I’ve been treated with Scenar for year and half now and I am so thankful to be introduced to this revolutionary technology. Before I was regulary ill, have few surgeries. Now I am getting healthier and healthier every day. Even more, I was healed from the pain in my back that I thought I will have for the rest of my life.

    • Todd Says:

      Don’t waste your time. These buffoons are only here to bash that which they do not understand. They are additionally ignorant that they don’t even try it out for themselves. I second your story BTW, although its only been 5 months…

  101. afitzho Says:

    Just tried SCENAR for the first time here in Los Angeles for chronic pain in my shoulder and a wicked bad case of tennis elbow. Doctors had put me on anti-inflam pills that upset my stomach, physical therapy has been slow and ineffective. One SCENAR treatment, and I feel like a new person. I can understand the cynicism and labels of quackery, but, based on actual experience, I think this device is pretty damn revolutionary. Try it before you knock it angry critics. Also go outside a little more, and enjoy life. :)

  102. nic Says:

    having followed this long conversation it seems obvious,to, an impartial observer(,me) ,that the strong fear of being taken for a financial ride is the biggest obstacle to progress here.It seems pretty obvious the authentic scenar machines are having very positive effects on living oganisms.All the above sceptics need free treatment along with some basic imfo into the medical naughtiness of the mainstream.health systems.Perhaps scenar experiments on plants might help in the ongoing “placebo effect” arguments voiced above.

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